My scout camp experience

[_Scottie]

So over the weekend, I had the chance to take my 11 year old son to his first scout campout.

Overall, it was a fun experience. We did the basket weaving merit badge (which I HATE!!). We got to play some night games and did the lame scout program/skits/songs.

The part that disturbed me was the fireside. The called all the boys to the amphitheater where the 3 members of the stake presidency spoke. The first talk about how we are all tools in Gods hands. The leader shows the boys a plain branch and all the boys said how ordinary it was. Then he blew on it and they found out that he had made a whistle. And given help, even the most ordinary thing can become extraordinary. You boys may seem ordinary, but in the hands of the Lord, you too can be extraordinary.

All in all, a good talk. I don't like the idea that you can only become extraordinary with the help of God, but not a big deal.

The 2nd talk was about how the presidency wants all the young men to become better men than they are. In order to become better men than they are, they asked that all the boys committed to getting their Eagle, graduating seminary, going on a mission and getting married in the temple. Then they asked that any boy that is willing to accept this pledge to come down to the stage. They then escorted them all to the lodge where they took their picture and had them sign a paper with the pledge on it.

I was so infuriated by this talk.

First, the idea that doing any of these things makes you a “better person” is complete and utter bull! What happens to the boy that fails at doing one of these? Is he going to forever hold himself in contempt as not being “better”? Also, do these boys then look at other boys/men that don’t do these things as lesser men? Does my son view me as a lesser man because I didn't do 2/3 of these things?

Second, the pressure the presidency put on the boys to accept this pledge was unacceptable. It should have been a silent acceptance in your heart, not a public display where failure to come up would have been looked at in contempt by the other scouts and leaders. There is no way any of these boys could have denied this pledge without looking stupid.

Third, these boys had no idea what they are pledging to do. What is it with the Mormon church and asking people to make serious commitments to things they know almost nothing about?

If I had my way, I’d pull my kids out of the Mormon church so fast it would make their head spin. It always makes me cringe when members say that even if it isn't true, the church only teaches good things. BULL!!!!

[_stemelbow]

First, the idea that doing any of these things makes you a “better person” is complete and utter bull! What happens to the boy that fails at doing one of these? Is he going to forever hold himself in contempt as not being “better”? Also, do these boys then look at other boys/men that don’t do these things as lesser men? Does my son view me as a lesser man because I didn't do 2/3 of these things?

Second, the pressure the presidency put on the boys to accept this pledge was unacceptable. It should have been a silent acceptance in your heart, not a public display where failure to come up would have been looked at in contempt by the other scouts and leaders. There is no way any of these boys could have denied this pledge without looking stupid.

I agree with you. I probably wouldn't have been as upset by it, but overall I think you are right. No good.

[Guest]

The 2nd talk was about how the presidency wants all the young men to become better men than they are. In order to become better men than they are, they asked that all the boys committed to getting their Eagle, graduating seminary, going on a mission and getting married in the temple. Then they asked that any boy that is willing to accept this pledge to come down to the stage. They then escorted them all to the lodge where they took their picture and had them sign a paper with the pledge on it.

So Mormons now believe in the altar call?

The problem with these kinds of stunts is that they substitute actual commitment with a fake social commitment. The act of walking up to the front (in revival parlance answering the altar call) produces all kinds of emotions which people confuse with actual commitment to do something. Because the kinds of emotions involved in walking forward are very powerful (fear and trepidation followed by the euphoria of social acceptance and praise), it gives people a nice jolt for a short while, and because it's powerful, it can be confused with commitment.

The problem is that rarely there is any actual commitment which can lead to further problems as people can then feel guilt or shame for not living up to their "commitment."

It's also a cheap trick. Instead of investing the massive amount of time and effort to actually convince these kids to a real personal commitment, they get a cheap substitute.

[_Themis]

So Mormons now believe in the altar call?

LOL I couldn't help but think of that as well. Creepy

[_Everybody Wang Chung]

Scottie,

Your "scouting" experience sounds like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97NFNXk8aFc

[_Scottie]

Scottie,

Your "scouting" experience sounds like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97NFNXk8aFc

Uhh... it wasn't quite THAT bad.

[_cinepro]

The 2nd talk was about how the presidency wants all the young men to become better men than they are. In order to become better men than they are, they asked that all the boys committed to getting their Eagle, graduating seminary, going on a mission and getting married in the temple. Then they asked that any boy that is willing to accept this pledge to come down to the stage. They then escorted them all to the lodge where they took their picture and had them sign a paper with the pledge on it.

I was so infuriated by this talk.

First, the idea that doing any of these things makes you a “better person” is complete and utter bull! What happens to the boy that fails at doing one of these? Is he going to forever hold himself in contempt as not being “better”? Also, do these boys then look at other boys/men that don’t do these things as lesser men? Does my son view me as a lesser man because I didn't do 2/3 of these things?

Second, the pressure the presidency put on the boys to accept this pledge was unacceptable. It should have been a silent acceptance in your heart, not a public display where failure to come up would have been looked at in contempt by the other scouts and leaders. There is no way any of these boys could have denied this pledge without looking stupid.

That last talk was unfortunate. I've spent many years in scouts as a youth and adult, and it has always been my observation that the LDS Scout leaders did a very good job of keeping the scout program mostly "scouts", with an opening and closing prayer just to remind us that we're LDS.

This past summer, our week-long scout camp was composed of LDS troops only, with an eye towards making it an "LDS Encampment", and I wondered how it would be different. All in all, it wasn't much different from a regular week at scout camp, except they had a lot of extra coffee left over at the end of the week. And we didn't have those annoying gentile troops with their full uniforms and well-behaved kids making us LDS troops look bad at the flag ceremonies.

Tragically, one of the scouts died during the week at camp, so there were some gospel-themed remarks at one of the campfires, but it seemed appropriate in discussing the tragedy, and I think it helped to have all the boys there from LDS troops so we could all deal with the death with our shared worldview.

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?secti ... id=8225068

[_Scottie]

Tragic story, Cinepro. At least it wasn't because of standard boy scout shenanigans that he died. Those are the ones I cringe at.

"I bet you can't jump over this fire!"
or
"Oh my heck! Look how far down that cliff is!!"

My 13 year old step-son comes home with stories like that all the time. "My friends duct taped me to a fold-away bed, and folded me away and left me there for like 15 minutes."

All in all, it wasn't much different from a regular week at scout camp, except they had a lot of extra coffee left over at the end of the week.

Heh, I brought a Starbucks iced coffee for breakfast and felt compelled that I should hide it. I would have to sneak a sip here and there when nobody was looking for fear I'd be kicked out of the camp.

[_The Nehor]

Your Stake Presidency was well-intentioned but I would suggest they are wrong. The gospel has covenants and commitments already. To tack on additional ones about making said covenants and commitments cheapens the real ones.

The Stake Presidency would be better advised to speak on the covenant of baptism and/or the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood that these boys have already taken up instead of adding a cheesy new one.

[_Fence Sitter]

It does not get better as we get older. As adults, especially young adults, we make commitments in the temple that are eternal, when we really have no concept what eternal entails, just some vague notion of happily ever after or eternal punishment (as in a lesser kingdom for eternity) if we are not faithful to the end.