Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials

[_ELYSAB]

No doubt. KINDERHOOK CHARACTERS are as correct as CARACTORS "characters": both are from the NEPHITIC civilization.

Thus KINDERHOOK "stretches" and "includes" the Nephitic Empire to include another landmark: the KINDERHOOK Indian Mounds, where 6 brass plates were found in the State of Illinois.

Thus KINDERHOOK is in accordance with the explanation provided by Joseph Smith that the NEPHITIC KINGDOM stretched from nearby nowadays town of New York (from the nearby only one CUMORAH HILL, the one which is "on the shore" of EAST SEA = Ontario Lake)
and such Empire goes to the Rocky Mountains (Albuquerque, N.M.). Kinderhook is in between such extreme limits...




http://maps.google.com.br/maps?client=f ... -BR&tab=wl

Click on previous URL. It will appear the screen of Google Maps. In the field for "location" desired for the map, insert "Kinderhook, Illinois, USA" and press Enter. Hide the panel on left side. Go to the elevation bar of control system, at the left side, and lower the "ring" with a "minus" (-). As it goes down, the image changes as if you are in a balloon rising to great elevation. Keep rising. You may use the fixed (+) and (-) commands on top of the rod. Change the scale to reduce the size of image to be enough for Salt Lake be just right but next to the Panel of control of elevation and the Ontario Lake yet be full visible in the right border of the monitor screen and the town of Albuquerque (N.M., "Los Lunas, in Rocky Mountain") be visible above left down corner.

Draw a straight line from ALBUQUERQUE (New Mexico = Rocky Mountains where it was found huge Rock Wall written with a religious text in SABELLICUS: "LOS LUNAS")
to BUFFALO (near CUMORAH HILL) and you can "see" KINDERHOOK is exactly on the "center" of the ROUTE that Joseph Smith told (in relation to the ZELPH, the White Lamanite) it was the size of Nephite Empire...

Do you believe more in JOSEPH? Or do you believe more n some Zion's Wises providing revelations, to everybody, without explicit God's revelation, distorting Joseph's TRUTH? Biased wises?

For long 6 PLATES became IGNORED in the Church, being of unknown storage or position. It was clear that they could have been "eliminated or being LOST for ever, burned in some fire, sold as scrap metals, etc.".

It is possible that 6 original plates were replaced by some modern zinc brass "hoax" and the original characters were just photocopied (from files) to the "hoax zinc brass plates".

It is possible that even some LDS even provided "cover up" to replace lost original plates or even to "support" some type of "fraud" as means to eliminate such undesired Joseph's theory of Nephitic Kingdom based on USA (from N.Y. town region to Rocky Mountains).

Because such "hypothesis" would avoid the "exploration, exploiting" of the superb Ruins of so much more appealing, visible and profitable (as for tourism) Nephitic Empire based on Meso-America/Mexico (as it was finally decided and supported by the Church in 1921; thus it became necessary to "exterminate" Joseph Smith’s theory in favor of USA+CANADA’s being the headquarters of Nephitic Empire geography).

Well, these are just speculations… Maybe they have much better information, not easily available or yet undisclosed.

Kinderhook plates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinderhook_plates
The Kinderhook plates were a set of 6 small, bell-shaped pieces of brass with .... His last call on us was last Saturday and he brought with him half a dozen thin ... Smith cited the kinderhook plates in a map he drew ---> FALSE <--- of Moroni's journey to the hill ...

http://rsc.BYU.edu/archived/book-mormon ... e-prophets

http://rsc.BYU.edu/sites/default/files/ ... %204ne.jpg

Two Interesting Maps <--- THEY ARE CLEARLY VERY FALSE, NOT FROM JOSEPH SMITH, JUST "HOAX", INVENTED GARBAGE, ROTTING BAD SMELL THINGS ---->

Several years ago, I came across two copies (----> VERY FALSE. I WAS OWNER AND TECHNICAL DIRECTOR OF A MAPPING COMPANY, A BIG ONE, AND I NEVER SAW SO BADLY FALSIFIED MAP <--- of a map in the Archives Division of the Historical Department of the Church relative to Moroni’s North American journeys (see Figures 1 and 2). On the back of the map in Figure 1 is written the following:

A chart, and description of Moroni’s travels through this country. Got it from Br. Robert Dickson. He got it from Patriarch Walmart. McBride at Richfield in the Sevier and also from Andrew M. Hamilton of same place.
And they got it from Joseph Smith the Prophet --> HOW GREAT DISTORTERS, TOPOGRAPHERS, WE HAVE?…----.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
and above it to the left is “Salt Lake.-----NOT POSSIBLE BE TRUE----” To the right is “Independens, Jackson Co, Mo.” and above that is “Adam on Diamon, Davis Co, Mo.” To the right of that is “Nauvoo, Hancock C.Ill.” Below that is “Mound Kinderhook, Pick, Co, Ill, 6 Plates Bell shape were found” (were was was on one copy). Then to the right and above that is “Kirtland, Ohio,” and to the right of that is “Commorre [Cumorah], N.Y ----> MISTAKES OF SPELLING ADDED TO MAKE IT MORE "REASONABLE", TRUSTABLE, QUITE LIKE PIRATE'S MAP. -.-.-.-.-.

[_ELYSAB]

It was possible to make the careful TRANSLATION of all CHARACTERS from the first top line of the document CARACTORS, a list made by Joseph Smith through the copy of some characters from some Gold Plates used for translation to generate the English Version of Book of Mormon.

Each CHARACTER, from the document CARACTOR, that is in the first line, received a special attention in the sense of identifying the original linguistic source used to originate such CHARACTER (mainly if it was originated from ITALIAN Geography, or from Greek language or from Phoenician language or else). Thus for each CHARACTER it is provided the reproduction of the ORIGINAL CHARACTER used, as by NEPHITES writers to generate the CARACTOR's character. And it was checked if they were writing toward right or to left. Or we verified if they were alternating such direction of writing.

In fact some short words (or parts of words) were written in the first line of "Charactors". And some "words" (never "phrases") are quite evident, important and very used in their language, even to write Book of Mormon, as it was written in quite like an Italic Language... With some minimal of Greek and Phoenician: just a “seasoning”.

[_ELYSAB]

Conclusions:

about the TRANSLATION of CHARACTERS and small WORDS that are on the list named CARACTORS, made by Joseph Smith through making copy of characters copied from Gold Plates used to translate the Book of Mormon.

As far as I went on, with a general previous translation, and then with in depth translation (linking to the source of characters, as from several type of Old Italic alphabet, and from Standard Old Greek Language and even to Ancient Greek, Phoenician characters, etc.), it could be concluded that the LANGUAGE USED BY THE NEPHITE PEOPLE WAS:

1) - Basically, for general purposes, the NEPHITIC language and characters were very alike the OLD ITALIC characters LANGUAGES (as some blend of Ancient Latin, Etruscan, Adriatic/Picene, Oscan, Umbrian, Sabina,Sabina-Tiberina, Etrurian,Campania-Osca, Samnio, Campania, etc.). Several names could mean the same thing, as they came from several authors, several sources and regions/times, providing quite similar characters and language features.

2) - Quite like some "clusters" of people living in "cultural-religious" alike "ghettos" (resembling JEWISH ones, as living in towns of Poland, and not having great "mixing with neighbors", the Nephites were like a BIG FAMILY COMMUNITY, that also had their own "language, religion", that was not the "plain orthodox Judaism", but was not also Pagan religions surrounding them. Thus they had "PRIESTS, not the same as in Judaism". They had such PRIESTS already in captivity in Lebanon (Phoenicia), Joel 3:6. They helped them survive as "hidden nation" through Phoenicia, Greece and Italy. Priests ordered to build the TOMBS, like Indian MOUNDS, also mentioned in Bible...

Because of such PRIESTS they had written and spoken/verbal/tradition "memory" of those days of slavery in Lebanon, in Greece and of going to be free and living in freedom in ITA-LIAh.

Because of them, it was preserved the way they "used" Phoenician and Greek language and characters, together with Hebrew, to organize their own and hybrid "family/group community of slaves" and their language, the Nephitic = SAB-ELLI's language, quite alike Caractors language, being of the family of OLD ITALIC ALPHABETS.

Thus such "family-group" (of "good parents) of special "racial-religious group", quite alike some "Jewish groups" that were to live segregated in some nations for years ahead, had quite like their DIALECT for their INTERNAL USE. Thus they could use some WORDS that were of same meaning of those being used by surrounding people of OLD ITALIC ALPHABETS and replace them by same meaning and value characters from GREEK and PHOENICIAN characters.

For sure (due to their Priests) they were able even to write in Hebrew, knowing that Hebrew and Phoenician (and thus Greek and thus Sabellian = Nephitic) all were just REFORMED EGYPTIAN LANGUAGES and CHARACTERS: just originated from the same source, the same origin of semitic languages, at the same point in Sinai: originated from the same EGYPTIAN LANGUAGE.
Best personal regards, ELY - SAB.

[_DarkHelmet]

Have any skolars examined the caractors? I know the Anthon story but that's fake propaganda.

[_ELYSAB]

People say the same thing in relation to the Gold Plates with Records from Nephites, Jaredites, Lamanites, etc. They are just Romance Books

They say such things are just HOAKS because scientists can't examine all such "evidences" to be sure they are true and honest scientific evidences backing true theory or hypothesis or revelation or account.

Thus all our revelation is based on nothing, are based on just in non trustable accounts. Most of what is in Bible are also based on nothing. They are based on accounts without "tangible scientific trustable evidences, that we can't submit to physical/chemical tests".

Some are even based on DREAMS, thoughts, temptations, apparitions... all without witness that such "dreams like" conditions really took place... We have none evidence that the records (even those of Book of Mormon) in fact are those original records (as from KINDERHOOK) and not others... That they were not invented or changed, according the interests of some group of persons. That most of Bible is not just composed of HOAX..., adding and removing parts, as doctrines... ISLAMITES (Muslims) say that greatest part of Bible that survived is just FAKED MATERIAL: thus they avoid using it.



Have any scholars examined the caractors? I know the Anthon story but that's fake propaganda.
_________________
Evil will always prevail, because good is dumb.

[_ELYSAB]

PROPOSED TRANSLATION OF THE KINDERHOOK CHARACTERS.

The work for CARACTORS is basically finished. Now is more for academic work, as for students of some good and reliable universities, to finish the research. Maybe some LDS university center, like BYU, can do the work. As remain none mystery about the translation of the CARACTORS and their meaning and their origin and evolution through the time. This case is trivial.

What about the KINDERHOOK translation? The same, as the CHARACTERS are exactly the same. There is nothing to add or remove, because the CHARACTERS have the same origin. It is just a matter of intensity of evolution that we can see. As if in one case we can report the language used in the days of Joseph Smith and then we can read the report written in nowadays current English. Some distinction can be noticed. Also we don't know the PERSONAL purpose that was given when both plates were written. Both documents were not based on the same source, as if originate by copy of some original document. Thus so many effects must be taken into account. Even we have to consider and judge the personal styles in selecting what characters to select or what to stress as more important. As given more importance to old characters in relation to their surrounding living language of neighbors, of their OLD ITALIC ALPHABETS and ITALIAN/ETRUSCAN friends. In any way so many of such more recent source of characters are present in KINDERHOOK, and they would be IMPOSSIBLE to have been added, because the TOMBS of such ANCIENT ITALIANS (as the ETRUSCANS) yet were too recent (started in 1830...) and not yet understood and not known by academic/scientists to have been used into practice in HOAX materials in KINDERHOOK, a "lost far away place, at the end of the civilized world"... as it was the "FAR WEST". Only people "mad as a HATTER" could guess in such so mad idea...

HOW COULD IT WORKS A TRANSLATION OF A KINDERHOOK PLATE?

For sure some learned LDS, as some of BYU, are not to appreciate this mere SUGGESTION. In fact it is not more than a SPECULATION by now:



If you want to see much more enlarged, click on next URL. (click again on image to make it enlarge even more).
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/2b688d8a81bcdb10dd4a7643975c3453a846b25442eaba626c2d731f755b0c246g.jpg

Consider the ENCLOSED PLATE 1, face 1 (other is the same thing).
Consider it is as if CARACTORS document. Thus it may have been written to the write or to the left or ALTERNATING (system BOUSTROPHEDON, that I concluded it was the case of NEPHITIC language based on CARACTORS document). Also it is KINDERHOOK... The usual is to start at the TOP.

You look at the document and you can see the "R" character, which looks like the modern letter=character "D", is in the reversed way. Thus we must read from Right to Left.

We start with the character "A" which appears "Phoenician", but it is upside down. It was never Phoenician... Probably this was from a manual for CRYPTOGRAPHY. On top of such "A" is an "I". Move to the left is character "I" and "R" and then "d" (signal to end the word). Thus we may have something like AIIRI.

Then we continue after "d" (which is like our "dot" for phrase or blank space between words): W W (they are from Sabellicus Sabina Tiberina of VI-V century BC... ITALY) and I and S (is only from Italic languages) and comes "d" (like an "end point"): the word WWIS ("UIS")

Then continues to left with U and I and S and you reach the END. What happens now? How do you continue to read? The E and S shapes tell us to read as Italic people did: from left to right. We are acting as Boustrophedon...

Thus we continue to read the WORD, that we stopped in UIS (upper line) and now we read E (like Greek EPSILON)... There is an I before character E. Thus we read IE. Continue there is R and the end of course "d". Thus the next possible word is UISIR.

Continuing we have LUTR. And then mark end of course.

Then start with S at the end of 2nd line and goes to the START of 3rd line because the letters/words are to be read toward the right (just examine them). At the very left of 3rd line, the word continues with I and then S and I and I and R. Comes the "d". Thus the word is SISIIR.

Then it continues AIRIAIS. Then comes "d". Then continues SISSE (last E already at the left of 4th line). Then continue ERIAKIS.
"d" A.I. "d" SI SIID.

No doubt, it is very "crude" yet as translation. But quite very much distinct in relation to what we have with CARACTORS, which is basically a LIST of CHARACTERS. And thus no chance of messages.

[_ELYSAB]

GEOGRAPHY of Book of Mormon having KINDERHOOK IN IT x

JOSEPH SMITH DISCLOSURE = UNVEILING about SUCH GEOGRAPHY linked to PUBLIC REVELATION ABOUT ZELPH and GEOGRAPHY OF NEPHITES KINGDOM x

MODERN LDS-BYU GEOGRAPHY OF NEPHITES IN MESO-AMERICA DENYING KINDERHOOK AND JOSEPH SMITH'S REVELATION ABOUT ZELPH geography


What are the BASICS and FUNDAMENTAL "principal" CORNERSTONES of LDS GEOGRAPHY? They are linked to the Book of Mormon text.
As related to the NEPHITIC-LAMANITIC-MULEKITES and JAREDITES people living in "AMERICA", in "SOMEWHERE" geographic told places.

Are them in South America? In Meso-America/Central-America? In Mexico? In the USA? In somewhere Canada? Partly in USA and partly in Canada? In the whole North America continent? In all over the America continent? In just some Island of Sea (as Cuba?)?

What is the relationship of Geography for Nephitic-Lamanitic-Mulekitic events in relation to the Jareditic events? Are them in the same very land, with just other names? Or is just there some overlap of lands?

How can we know that one geographic event, described and located by some toponimic identification (as one name and feature) is the true same land of some other name in the other culture?

I guess there is just one case in which there is one "explicit" link of one Jaredict place being written as the same for Nephites, in Book of Mormon: it was when Jaredite's records were being translated into Nephitic's.

It is like you have the old map of Roman Empire, made as good as possible. Then you get another and modern map of Italy. And you try to identify the place of a plane crash event on both maps and how to go to such place. Probably some things are in common in both maps, as the rivers e peak of mountains, for example... Some towns and roads disappeared...

As in the case of Book of Mormon, some towns probably were burned, as they were made basically of WOOD, the ideal material for very cold places, as NORTH LANDS and thus the "devastation = DESOLATION, Deforestation"... And the bad environmental impacts as lack of animal wild life...

Think about the Japanese, living in places of very severe cold weather. "Guess" if their "dream" (like those described in Book of Mormon) was to live in a "cold" house made of STONES or of BLOCKS OF CEMENT... No! As in Book of Mormon, Their "dream" was to have houses made of WOOD, even if it comes from far away, transported by huge Hagoth's cargo sail ships. Because of CONFORT, as thermal one, provided by wood. Also it is safer if you are subject to earthquakes: I lived in Berkeley (S.F.Bay Area).

For hot climates, it makes no difference in living in a brick house or without wood thermal insulation on floor and walls. Thus in Jerusalem and Israel or Egypt it was reasonable to live in houses made of stones or bricks or "blocks of soil cement = quick lime + sand + pebble stones".

Where did start the KINGDOM OF NEPHITES? Had KINDERHOOK?

WHERE IS THE VERY BASIC MAP of the GEOGRAPHY of Book of Mormon LINKING NEPHITIC DAYS and our MODERNITY DAYS?

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/e23 ... 69f06g.jpg

You can see the pathway of Nephites (and also of the CHURCH) from the landing harbor of LIBERTY (statue...). Nephites landed in N.Y. Long Island (point 1), moved through Hudson River to Cumorah Hill on Sea East (Lake Ontario) = Point 2. Next moved to Kirtland, Ohio, L.Erie (point 3). Then to point 10, at the margin of River Illinois, where it was found the skeleton of ZELF (WHITE Lamanite Warrior, who was known all over the NEPHITE KINGDOM, from CUMORAH HILL to the ROCKY MOUNTAINS: disclosure by Joseph Smith). From point they went to point 4=Independence, Mis. ; then to point 5=NAUVOO, Illinois, which is KINDERHOOK location. Well in the Joseph Smith's route from CUMORAH HILL to the ROCKY MOUNTAINS for Nephite's KINGDOM size.

http://img28.mediafire.com/b179bd4047cd ... 6f4b6g.jpg Then click on the image for it become even enlarged.

From point 5 LDS moved to 6=Winter Quarters. The Old Nephites from 6 moved to 8 = LOS LUNAS, a great smooth stiff flat vertical wall with carved religious message in NEPHITIC CHARACTERS of type shown in KINDERHOOK plates. In modernity days the modern Nephites moved from point 6 to the point 6 = Salt Lake Valley, in Rocky Mountains.

JOSEPH SMITH declared very plainly that places like KINDERHOOK, NAUVOO, INDEPENDENCE, KIRTLAND, CUMORAH, etc. all were built over the NEPHITES EMPIRE.... And never told untruth things like that the Nephites empire was sited in Mexico or Meso-America... In very plain words, Joseph Smith told the very truth during the event of ZELPH's skeleton discovery next to River Illinois: point "10" in the enclosed MAPS. One reason why they try to silence KINDERHOOK.

I used such Zelf's CLUE from the GREATEST and New prophet, instead of using so many bad clues from people who are just "curious"... Without powers of God's revelation, just providing Aaron foolished Jews to worship gold calf (even being well informed about Truth and God) and for Balaam’s revelation as to fornicate Jews with Arab's girls.

This is what some are doing and teaching, acting as Aaron, that Nephite's kingdom was in Mexico or Guatemala or "both" or there but with Cumorah's last battle being as in one isolated point in USA, with enemy Armies marching side-by-side, in peace, by thousand of miles just to face the final battle so far away... Could believe in so untruth?

Some good pioneers were of "good heart", like those asking to Aaron, Moses' brother, some way to make it easier to worship God. Providing an easier and more reliable religion, full of idols to touch and make tourism trips to such Nephitic ruins. Quite like going to Israel to see ruins in the "Holly Land" and their tourist religious events.

In fact it is much easier to worship a Gold calf that everybody can "see" (as pyramids in Mexico and Guatemala... They distort their true bloodiest history as being Nephiste's), than to believe in some History that is kept much HIDDEN. As it was to believe in GOLD PLATES that nobody could SEE or TOUCH or examine. It was as if MOSES' God before Israel: they wanted IDOLS, tourism. They had to make choices. Believe in Moses' God, based on Moses' word and disclosure (revelations) and keep marching in the desert during 40 years. Or, ... for sure, they had the option to return to the Egypt and return to the life of slavery. And being slaves of Gold Idols of Egypt, also liars.

Or could return to believe in idols and pyramids of Mexico/Guatemala as being what is the true Geography from Book of Mormon events and IDOLS being added... Free! People like very much idols, statues... mainly if of gold or covered with a thin sheet of gold. See Aaron...

Some old Christians instead of combating some pagan idols, as so many "goddess", Pagan female God, decided to turn all of them into "one": their "Mother of God" (and there is just one God, Mother of the One God). Thus all Pagan female Divinity were turned into just "one" and then accommodated and used to attract so many adepts...

This old practice of "accommodation" and "attraction" may explain the interest in making Meso-America and Mexico also "integrated", even since the old past as part of the Nephitic kingdom and with the ruins.

[_ELYSAB]

I descend from the VERY ANCIENT and OLDEST FAMILY of SABELLI = SAVELLI that is believed to be an ISRAELITE family that originated from JOEL 3:6 days. And that lived in slavery in LEBANON (Phoenician) and in GREECE. From Greece they "run away, moved to" the ITALIA = ITA LIAH, the land for the "ITA = descendents of" LIAH = JACOB's wife = ISRAEL's wife = Land for the ISRAELITES = Land for the SABELLI = SAB ELI = SABaoth ELI. That in Nephitic language = SABELLI's language means, read from right to left, as Sabelli did in Greece and in Ancient Italy, in SABELLICUS language,
ELI SABaoth = “MY GOD” the “LORD of Heavenly ARMY” = My God Jehovah = Israel’s God = I am Israelite = I am SABELLI = I am Neph (just a small sub-tribe among so many tribes of Sabelli's, as SABINES, LUCANES, PICENTINES, UMBROS, SAMNITES, etc.).

It is well known that a sub-tribe NEPH (NEF) joined to the CELTS in the north of Italy, some VIII (7?) century BC and they made great invasions and disgraces through Europe, even going as far as DANub river (DAN in Sabellicus language...). Also they crossed the CHANNEL that separates France and Great Britain. In it they stopped in the Island of DIEU or ADIEU, which is a SABELLICUS name of GREEK divinity origin (and it is in Book of Mormon, and some think it is of modern French). In Great Britain some Sabelli=NEPHITES moved to live in NORTH IRELAND, in a region named NEPHIN= NEPH IN, the living place for the NEPHites. There you can now find words in Nephitic mixed among Celtic and English... Yet alive Nephitic. Their poetry is quite like old Hebrew poetry... I have an Irish descendant relative in family.

The other NEPH branch departed from Rome's region, something I concluded in late 1997 or maybe early 1998, when I went to work in Italy, ordered by my bi-national sanitation company. That was a sudden order.

When going to board the ALITALIA plane, my connecting flight arrived late. I was the last passenger to come to the desk to board. There was just one seat vacant, at the very rear. Then the attendant "remembered" there was plenty of seats at the very first row of economy class, from window to window, but BLOCKED by an unknown PASSWORD. As it has ended the boarding time, attendant reasoned such seats had been unlocked by now. They weren't. I had asked window. The blocked seat "blinked and turned free". It got unlocked by itself, without requiring password but the others remained blocked and requiring password. The attendant told my invisible group was just waiting for me and were holding the reservation for us have some privacy. Never during the flight any person sat or even tried to seat on any of that "blocked" seats: maybe others passengers “saw” that vacant seats as occupied seats... (?) Even if the plane was very overcrowded and before our seats there was a corridor: plenty space to stretch the legs.

During the flight I became aware that the trip to Italy was not a common trip, but had something linked to my very ANCIENT ANCESTORS of remote ages…, that I never could dream about. But first of all I had to fulfill the job for what I had been sent to work in Italy. It was to pay attention to the surnames, as on the tombs, on museums, on catacombs,… And that my family ancestors were in quite like two trees. One being the dark side, and symbolism could be the Vatican I was to visit and pay attention. Also quite like a chain/network of Isabel’s palaces through many waters and places of the World. And good ancestors, trees being symbolized by those righteous who died in witness of righteousness, even in Coliseum, to where they were to be gathered to hear I preach a speech to them.

And then, flying very high, departed. I didn't worry about or become mystical or sorrow. I had a normal dinner and a dream night. I raised the arm supports and slept, as if over a bed, while flying to Rome, for a hard next work day.

Thus I paid great attention, quite like trying to discover the “links” among the “words”. My wife, by phone, told me to go without any type of money, when visiting any type of Isabel's relative castles, mainly the corrupt luxurious one.

In hotel my eyes got open and suddenly I started to see and understand “words”. Like a “curtain” fell before my eyes and I saw the Book of Mormon was written in my own VERY ANCIENT "SABELLICUS LANGUAGE", of some 600 BC. And that the NEPHITES had departed from ITALY, from nearby ROME region. It is amazing when you are surrounded with so many "whispers", each one as if from the Coliseum, now them trying to provide you their history.

So I could understand that the WORDS in Book of Mormon are exactly the SAME as those of WORDS of SABELLICUS in some 600 BC in ITALIA, in ITA=DESCENDENTS OF (israel-ITA, ita=descendents of Israel) and that a parallel could be made between what was in Book of Mormon and in OLD ITALLIAN LANGUAGE. And it was very easy TO SEE corruption in the translation toward ENGLISH (from original Book of Mormon in SABELLICUS = NEPHITIC dialect) and from SABELLICUS (of 600 BC) toward our modern Latin-alike languages.

Thus Joseph translation was not something perfect for Latin languages... Some words in fact were not "translated", but just "adjusted cultural-phonetically", and that is very easy to know if you know the original version.... And some words are clearly wrong, as they had none meaning in English, as SHAZER, when it was to mean CHASER for Hebrew or Sabellicus/Latin. But that is not problem, as it is "phonetic" the same.

Immediately (14 years ago…) I wrote and sent a detailed report to some friends and SUD (LDS) important authorities of Brazil. And WORST, BAD IDEA, I did the same for friends and authorities of USA: a CULTURAL PROBLEM.

I was so silly that I even sent, in a Saturday, an express Mail (EMS) to the Church President himself. What so silly!... I doubt that ever such letter reached Gordon B. Hinckley… But, next Wednesday night I was called to be punished, without any specific accusation, and without any trial or possibility of defense, to be cut as being first counselor of bishop (who resigned and abandoned the LDS religion, in protest) and I became without Temple recommendation for very long many years... and prohibited to teach or making speeches or writing sites, having to destroy them... "I became like a dead – alive” member, in “limbo”.



Probably the subject of ITALIC LANGUAGE being like a (Greg) "SHORT HAND" to NEPHITIC LANGUAGE/CHARACTERS remains quite as "dangerous" pathway to follow… But in any way it is the CORRECT PATHWAY. Congratulations from a SABELLICUS language which INCLUDES such a wide possible branch of sub-language and sub-tribes and characters into what you proposed.



I posted extensive literatures in SUD (Brazil) and LDS literature (even in FAIR) and even in Israelite sites (since 1999) about such nothing conventional things, as translation of CARACTORS into CHARACTERS and their gathering into WORDS. In fact I learned much from the Jews of USA, because when I could do not among the LDS, some Jews suggested me share their friendship, as if an "exiled"... Thus I was accepted as LDS to live and be protected among the Jews, friendly, as brother. Quite like Moses among Arabs into Jethro’s family.

I learn some good things. As how they translated so many NEPHITIC materials they gathered across USA, quite like "other nephitic texts/plates": very good information you should know it exist, and that LDS try to hide the existence... and the TREASURES it was excavated from Indians Mounds, a work done including by Joseph Smith, was bought by the Jews, mainly in their hands…. They translated according scientific principles. Not exactly as I had done, but the final result is quite like the same… I was considered RABINE because of SCINCE, not because of RELIGION, as I continue LDS… Large number of posted articles in Jew sites, including orthodox).

I suggest you examine the contents of the following TOPICS:

Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20022

Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19926&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=63

Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:24 pm
Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:41 pm
Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:46 pm
Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:03 pm
Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:02 pm
Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:26 pm
Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:21 pm

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19926&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=84

Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:06 am
Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:14 pm
Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:52 am
Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:22 pm
Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:18 pm
Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:28 pm
Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:36 am (Please, see this)
Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:03 pm (see this, also)
Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:23 pm

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19926&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=126

Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:29 am

CHARACTERS BOOK Mormon FOUND WITH USA INDIANS IN PETROGLYPHS

http://ldsfriends.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=2504&sid=0cafc4de90596bb572c58571c516593d

The posted material is SO OLD that all external links are not more working... GEOCITIES provider was extinct by Yahoo... You can see that the use of ITALIC CHARACTERS was extensively discussed in FAIR


Mormon DIALOGUE & DISCUSSION BOARD
1921 Book of Mormon Geography Hearings * * * * *

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/54967-1921-book-of-mormon-geography-hearings/page__st__60

Message #63 (how to write and read in NEPHITIC = ITALIC language = SABELLIC)
Message #65

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/cc1eb62bdf60b7c21be43b13c0c0778260bcaba60ee7872d3d1c993ccb1a309b4g.jpg CLICK ON URL and "SEE"

Message #68
Message # 71
Message #75
Message #79 (meaning of CUMORAH and SABAL, Mormon, MORONI)

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/f9ae412fc6d3ebeb7513fdaf14d5e02c6c323ed13bc8236e6b2162cdd98fc6c94g.jpgCLICK ON URL and "SEE"

Message #42 - kingdom around MANTI and RIPLAH and RIPLIANCUM
Message #80
Message #83 NEPHI town in EGYPT and NEPHI region in IRELAND
Message #84 Jews scientists translated Nephitic characters, they found in USA, in some places, for long.
Message #89 DID ROMAN EMPIRE "CHARACTERS"=MODERN LATIN was used in writing Book of Mormon? NO! They used ARCHAIC SABELLICUS, which has nothing to do with modern Latin characters.

MESSAGE #91 = HERE IS THE EXPLANATION WHY NOT MODERN LATIN

MESSAGE # 92 shows the CHARACTERS and LANGUAGE being used in ITALY when NEPHITES DEPARTED from there, starting the trip to USA.
You can see nice pictures of Objects found from Indian MOUNDs with texts written on them with CHARACTERS like those on Anthon Caractors, usually gathered by Jews scientists (not FAIR/BYU). Also the great smooth vertical wall also with carved characters of NEPHITIC generating a Religious Bible text in New Mexico.

Message # 93 etc. etc., up to the Message 120 (the Forum was CLOSED, EXTERMINATED to new posting: it is what appears; some ideas are not welcome, as I discovered in 1998 about the Nephites being a branch from a Greek-Italian "TREE"; they tried to SILENCE me as they tried also silence SCIENCE, as evident with GALILEO GALILEI. In vain). You yourself will concluded the obvious. Your proposition is toward the correct solution. Best personal regards, sincerely yours. ELYSAB

[_ELYSAB]

Some more material on translation of Nephitic charactes and words to English, and vice-versa, are available even in LDS sites, in Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, French... and English. As this one published in FAIR in 2005. Unfortunatelly the pictures (images) were based on Geocities server (from YAHOO) what was extinct. They can be retrieved, but the process is not reliable or easy. But almost all such images I had saved in my computers and CD, before the end of Geocites, and can be obtained. Also some of such material can be obtained in Jewish sites, in a cooperation started in 1999 mainly with Washington, in the research about of Garden of Eden, Eden and even America's Garden of Eden and their linking. A research that came "from the space", and generated the "one hour map", quite like a view from 1,200 km over a fixed point in so many millions years ago. It was only for research purposes: "no religion".

http://ldsfriends.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=2523&highlight=savelli

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:48 pm Post subject: BOOK Mormon being written BACK in NEPHI's language! See it!

RESTORE on PLATES words and phrases as they were written on GOLD PLATES before translation to generate our Book of Mormon.

There is a work going on, since 1998 (started in ROME) to RESTORE on plates exactly the same words and phrases that originally were written on Gold Plates and originated the translated Book of Mormon. Such "restoration" is being done using the same LANGUAGE and rules used in the NEPHI's language, with the SAME CHARACTERS (as "ANTHON's CARACTORS" and from USA INDIANS PETROGLYPHS found in USA, as from NEWARK-OHIO from 1860 - quite old - and from LOS LUNAS/Albuquerque-New Mexico).

You should examine the specific drawing on such task, going on. You may JOIN IN IT, with your HELP and COMMENTS and criticisms. You are welcome!

http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/elycellis ... ITICOd.JPG ---> GEOCITIES ended
(click on right down corner of it up to become enlarged).

This is a more specific FIGURE, showing how to "restore" = write back, on modern PLATES and sheet of paper, to become alike GOLD PLATES, with the same words, according with OLD CHARACTERS and OLD LANGUAGE RULES. ----> continues in FAIR

[_ELYSAB]

We have to take into consideration the factor "time" in very ancient characters (or whatever is equivalent to it, as glyphs, cuneiforms, ideograms, etc.). Should be the Adam's words and characters had been writen just some 5,772 years ago? What YEARS?

We assume, wrongly, that 1 God's day = 1,000 mortality time years. Maybe it is quite alike "WORTH" 1,000 astronomic and geologic time years. In fact God's scale and Mortality time SCALE are not LINEAR, one in relation to the OTHER. God's scale goes soon toward INFINITY, going ahead and backwards, and both infinites join as if Alpha and Omega, as if into "one ethernal circle". We could reason as God's scale being EXPONENTIAL both toward two directions, when expressing "infinite time events", in relation to our limited mortal time events. Even our astronomic and geological events are also quite limited, no as much limited as our geologic and astronomical time THAT ARE NOT "MORTALITY TIME", or replacement to that, as they are not mortal time.

In fact MORTALITY TIME, used to measure the TIME of WORDS and CHARACTERS written by ADAM and his first DESCENDANTS, was measured through LIVING HUMANS, not through astronomic or geologic events. You should notice that they are not used in Biblical accounts to measure Biblical time spans, as in any Scripture Book.

Thus in fact MILLIONS and MILLIONS our "astronomic and geodesic" time, which is not the MORTALITY TIME, have past since ADAM and EVE were created (ORGANIZED and then turned MORTAL) in Garden of Eden, up to nowadays, when in fact quite like MORTALITY TIME has past. Oh, but I provided a date for tablets with ADAM script and they were of MILLION years. Correct. Geologic time...

What is the relationship between geologic/astronomic time, in the tablets with words/characters, and the mortality time and God's time?