Scottie wrote:Yeah, but if you lose an internet debate, you don't get damned to an eternity of torment in outer darkness.
Actually you do. Ask Daniel Peterson what it's like when old Scratch finally comes knocking at your cyber door.
The war in heaven
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_asbestosman
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:32 pm
Re: The war in heaven
Actually you do. Ask Daniel Peterson what it's like when old Scratch finally comes knocking at your cyber door.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
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_stemelbow
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:40 pm
Re: The war in heaven
Scottie wrote:Yeah, but if you lose an internet debate, you don't get damned to an eternity of torment in outer darkness.
Where'd you get the idea? You lose here, you lose eternally. Your eternity is at stake!
Love ya tons,
Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
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_Scottie
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Re: The war in heaven
So here is my next question...
Supposedly 1/3 of the hosts of heaven went with Satan and his plan.
Can we safely assume that this is 1/3 of the spirits that will populate ALL of God's worlds so numerous they cannot be numbered?
So we are talking like googles of spirits here, right?
Lucifer is able to somehow get 1/3 of these spirits to fight for him. He was either able to do this by tricking the spirits into believing a lie, or God really IS a monster and they saw the need to fight.
If it was the former and Lucifer deceived all these spirits, is it really fair of God to damn them to eternal punishment? Shouldn't this kind God be able to see that these spirits were deceived and maybe use it as a teaching tool?
I dunno, but if my older kid somehow convinces my younger kid to throw a jellybean at me, I'm not going to be mad at the younger kid NEARLY as much as the older one. I would probably tell the younger not to listen to the older kid when he tells him to do crap like that. But not God.
Supposedly 1/3 of the hosts of heaven went with Satan and his plan.
Can we safely assume that this is 1/3 of the spirits that will populate ALL of God's worlds so numerous they cannot be numbered?
So we are talking like googles of spirits here, right?
Lucifer is able to somehow get 1/3 of these spirits to fight for him. He was either able to do this by tricking the spirits into believing a lie, or God really IS a monster and they saw the need to fight.
If it was the former and Lucifer deceived all these spirits, is it really fair of God to damn them to eternal punishment? Shouldn't this kind God be able to see that these spirits were deceived and maybe use it as a teaching tool?
I dunno, but if my older kid somehow convinces my younger kid to throw a jellybean at me, I'm not going to be mad at the younger kid NEARLY as much as the older one. I would probably tell the younger not to listen to the older kid when he tells him to do crap like that. But not God.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
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_Scottie
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Re: The war in heaven
stemelbow wrote:Scottie wrote:Yeah, but if you lose an internet debate, you don't get damned to an eternity of torment in outer darkness.
Where'd you get the idea? You lose here, you lose eternally. Your eternity is at stake!
Good thing I'm only debating against you then, huh!! :)
J/K Stem! Love ya man!
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
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_Wisdom Seeker
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- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:55 am
Re: The war in heaven
In the pre-mortal existence God had created every single being that would someday occupy a planet. At some point God wanted input from his spirit children on how best to proceed. God requested from his billions of spirit children a plan which would be used to bring about some sort of order and some method where all these spirit children will be given a chance to obtain a physical body, live a life, die and then receive either eternal damnation or paradise.
Out of the billions of spirit children we know of only three of his spirit children who reached the final vote for all of the spirit children to vote upon. Satan’s plan was very simple. Everyone will be born and all will be made to follow an exact protocol or path for readmission into heaven. The plan presented by Jesus was a little more complex. All would be allowed to live their life as they saw fit and only those who found that single door, which he would provide would be saved for readmission into heaven. Joseph Smith presented a plan that included parts from both other presenters and included them as part of his plan.
To Joseph, Satan’s plan was simply a long corridor with directions stating “This Way” and would not work. All would occupy heaven in the end and none would receive eternal damnation. Joseph suggested that Satan collect a group of volunteers to simply provide an unseen force to tell the mortal children “This Way.” They were free to direct them through a maze in any direction they saw fit. While Joseph liked the plan of Jesus he knew that not everyone was going to have the opportunity to find that door which he provided. He suggested that the door provided by Jesus will still be required to enter into heaven again. Joseph suggested that mortal beings did not need to find the door in their mortal life. A large group of volunteers would step forward in the pre-mortal existence to be born in the last days to give up much of their own time, and talents to help get dead people through the door by proxy.
God really liked Josephs plan and presented it to all the billions of spirit children. The spirit children had time to think over the many plans and were given the opportunity to either volunteer to be with Satan and his group, Joseph and his group or to simply come to earth and live a mortal life. So the call went out from God asking who volunteers to go to earth and lead people any which way they want in the mortal maze that people will be born into. At this point hands began to rise as one in three decided that this would be something they would like to do.
At this point God asked for volunteers to be born into a family or be a part of group who were willing to give up much of their freedom, time and talents to help get through the door those people who had lived a full life without finding the door which Jesus provides. Joseph raised his hand and within the hundreds of billions of spirit children about twenty million raised their hands. It was at this time Joseph realized the mistake he made. People wanted freedom to live their lives the way they wanted. All were basically willing to pay the price for any mistakes they might make while they live their lives.
To those who have chosen in the pre-mortal existence to be a part of this volunteer group. They have no time in this life to think of themselves. They volunteered to get the dead through the door by proxy in a temple. They have chosen to give up their time, talents and much of their free agency to help those who wished to live lives of freedom and sin. To you I say, get busy!
Out of the billions of spirit children we know of only three of his spirit children who reached the final vote for all of the spirit children to vote upon. Satan’s plan was very simple. Everyone will be born and all will be made to follow an exact protocol or path for readmission into heaven. The plan presented by Jesus was a little more complex. All would be allowed to live their life as they saw fit and only those who found that single door, which he would provide would be saved for readmission into heaven. Joseph Smith presented a plan that included parts from both other presenters and included them as part of his plan.
To Joseph, Satan’s plan was simply a long corridor with directions stating “This Way” and would not work. All would occupy heaven in the end and none would receive eternal damnation. Joseph suggested that Satan collect a group of volunteers to simply provide an unseen force to tell the mortal children “This Way.” They were free to direct them through a maze in any direction they saw fit. While Joseph liked the plan of Jesus he knew that not everyone was going to have the opportunity to find that door which he provided. He suggested that the door provided by Jesus will still be required to enter into heaven again. Joseph suggested that mortal beings did not need to find the door in their mortal life. A large group of volunteers would step forward in the pre-mortal existence to be born in the last days to give up much of their own time, and talents to help get dead people through the door by proxy.
God really liked Josephs plan and presented it to all the billions of spirit children. The spirit children had time to think over the many plans and were given the opportunity to either volunteer to be with Satan and his group, Joseph and his group or to simply come to earth and live a mortal life. So the call went out from God asking who volunteers to go to earth and lead people any which way they want in the mortal maze that people will be born into. At this point hands began to rise as one in three decided that this would be something they would like to do.
At this point God asked for volunteers to be born into a family or be a part of group who were willing to give up much of their freedom, time and talents to help get through the door those people who had lived a full life without finding the door which Jesus provides. Joseph raised his hand and within the hundreds of billions of spirit children about twenty million raised their hands. It was at this time Joseph realized the mistake he made. People wanted freedom to live their lives the way they wanted. All were basically willing to pay the price for any mistakes they might make while they live their lives.
To those who have chosen in the pre-mortal existence to be a part of this volunteer group. They have no time in this life to think of themselves. They volunteered to get the dead through the door by proxy in a temple. They have chosen to give up their time, talents and much of their free agency to help those who wished to live lives of freedom and sin. To you I say, get busy!