Dan Peterson is Something Else

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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Dan Peterson is a Coward

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Everyone has lied. That Kevin thinks he exposed a time when he lied in his life doesn't mean he's a liar. Throwing the word around that loosely obviously ruins any meaning it might have.


Stem, John Taylor was confronted on the issue of polygamy. He planned his response very carefully and on that issue he said it was an outrageous thing, and then he went on to read D&C passages that command men to be husbands to only one wife. At this time Taylor was married to multiple women, as were numerous LDS officials at the time.

So he was, to say the least, intentionally deceiving his audience. He wanted to assure them that Caswall's claim had no credibility. But he knew if he conceded the point on polygamy, that his smear campaign against Caswall would fail miserably, as it would prove he was credible on at least some things. Taylor couldn't afford him to be credible on any thing.

He later went on to make up things about the Haven interview, inserting comments she never said.

These are two ironclad examples from this one event of a conscious effort to deceive an audience. These weren't "mistakes" or goofs. These were egregious lies.

Now if Taylor cannot be called a liar, then who can be?

Keep in mind that anti-Mormons are called liars on a regular basis by your buddies over at MAD. Hell, Pahoran called me a liar no less than three times last week and I never once reciprocated.

Funny how there was no uproar over at MAD about how Pahoran had "ruined his own credibility" for calling me a liar. The mods sat by and watched, and did nothing. Well, they banned me, but that was about it. In that last thread Pahoran said my bigotry surpasses that of those who murdered Joseph Smith. So, I'm worse than a murderer, and I am regularly called a liar.

Of course there was never any evidence that I had lied about anything, and I even asked Pahoran to explain what his evidence was for whatever it was I supposedly lied about. He just dismissed the CFR and moved on to some other variant of the "liar" slur.
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_Yahoo Bot
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Re: Dan Peterson is a Coward

Post by _Yahoo Bot »

Kevin Graham wrote:by the way, since you have time to defend the indefensible, does this mean you have time to support evidence to back up your initial accusations against me?

Didn't think so.


I choose not to prove the obvious. You're a person who knows a lot but is a fool. Always has been; always will be. Too much wanting to see your name and opinions in public -- the fool's quest.

Liar liar everybody's a liar. So much a liar we don't know anymore that what you have to say is all that significant, your manifest hyperbole eclipses any sensible thing you'd every say. FOOL.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Dan Peterson is a Coward

Post by _Kevin Graham »

I choose not to prove the obvious.


You, a lawyer, think you're going to just get away with saying you don't need to prove your point because it is "obvious"? Yeah Bob, I'd be hiding behind a pseudoymn too if I were you.

You're a person who knows a lot but is a fool. Always has been; always will be.


Sounds like something Nibley said in an email to someone who complained about him misrepresenting his work. Nibley's only response was to resort to name-calling. In this case, he called him a "damned fool."

Too much wanting to see your name and opinions in public -- the fool's quest.


Oh, this must be why I have always tried to be published. Wait, I haven't.

Oh, it must be why I jumped at the numerous opportunities to be interviewed by John Larsen for Mormon Expressions. Wait, I haven't.

Oh, it must be why I have an anti-Mormon blog... Wait, I don't.

Oh, it must be why my website has an area dedicated to LDS criticisms. Wait, it doesn't.

Oh, it must be why I have written so much for those bloggers who invited me to post on Mormon issues. Wait, I haven't done that either.

I'm sorry Bob, but what precisely is your evidence that I exhibit "too much wanting to see [my] name and opinions in public"?
_schreech
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Re: Dan Peterson is a Coward

Post by _schreech »

stemelbow wrote:1. How did I defend anything that Zakuska posted? Not that I don't reserve the right to do so?

2. Everyone has lied. That Kevin thinks he exposed a time when he lied in his life doesn't mean he's a liar. Throwing the word around that loosely obviously ruins any meaning it might have.

3. I don't' care what you think of me, Schreech. Sad but true, I don't' hold much respect for your opinion at all.


So you don't agree with Zak's posts...I thought you said he started a thread that put the incident "into perspective" - that's fine, sorry I misunderstood...

So because everyone has lied, its ok that some people do, even if its about LDS "doctrine" - got it....

I could give a flying-f%$# what you think about me...again, once you actually decide that you want to pull your nose out of the backside of a bunch of goofball LDS apologists, maybe you will be taken seriously...until then, you come across as someone who is desperate for the attention of anyone that blindly defends the LDS church...Just stop whining and it might be bearable...
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"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents
"I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs
_marg
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Re: Dan Peterson is a Coward

Post by _marg »

Kevin Graham wrote:He later went on to make up things about the Haven interview, inserting comments she never said.


Is this Charlotte Haven? Could you elaborate or provide a link..just curious.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Dan Peterson is a Coward

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Not only did you call Dan a hypocrite for some odd reason,


What do you mean for "some odd reason"? My reasoning was clear. I called him a hypocrite because he jumped to defend Schryver and accuse all those who were repulsed by his behavior, as though they were conspiring to smear him. His evidence was based on a meeting he had with Schryver and his family. The fact that Schryver didn't slap or yell at his wife while in his presence, seems to be all the evidence Dan needs to conclude William has never engaged in misogynistic behavior. But the real hypocrisy comes when he complains about me calling the likes of Sowell a liar, without reading his book, when he was for many years the editor of a journal that was designed to keep the sheep from reading books that were potentially faith-damaging. By signing off on "reviews" that regularly described "anti-Mormon" authors as intentional deceivers. If you do not see this as hypocrisy, then please explain why.

you also went off on me saying I'm turning into a Droopy clone,in some effort to expose me


You're right, comparing you to droopy would be a horrible slur. But that isn't really calling you names, is it? You jumped to defend Dan in knee-jerk fashion without dealing with my argument or the evidence I presented, and that is why I compared you to droopy.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Dan Peterson is a Coward

Post by _Kevin Graham »

marg wrote:
Kevin Graham wrote:He later went on to make up things about the Haven interview, inserting comments she never said.


Is this Charlotte Haven? Could you elaborate or provide a link..just curious.



Hi marg, check out the transcriber's remarks down at the bottom of the page:

http://olivercowdery.com/texts/1850Tayl.htm#pg08b
_Yahoo Bot
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Re: Dan Peterson is a Coward

Post by _Yahoo Bot »

Kevin Graham wrote:You, a lawyer, think you're going to just get away with saying you don't need to prove your point because it is "obvious"? Yeah Bob, I'd be hiding behind a pseudoymn too if I were you.


I let my professional record speak for itself. Good, bad or indifferent. This post isn't about me or my sins and failures. If you want to lampoon me, start a new thread.

No need to prove that you're a narcissistic fool who loves seeing his name in public and who must call someone a liar just because he doesn't like what he reads.

Oh, this must be why I have always tried to be published. Wait, I haven't.

Oh, it must be why I jumped at the numerous opportunities to be interviewed by John Larsen for Mormon Expressions. Wait, I haven't.

Oh, it must be why I have an anti-Mormon blog... Wait, I don't.

Oh, it must be why my website has an area dedicated to LDS criticisms. Wait, it doesn't.

Oh, it must be why I have written so much for those bloggers who invited me to post on Mormon issues. Wait, I haven't done that either.


Hmm. Vaguely Petersonesque, wouldn't you say. But you do it so poorly.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Dan Peterson is a Coward

Post by _Kevin Graham »

No need to prove that you're a narcissistic fool who loves seeing his name in public and who must call someone a liar just because he doesn't like what he reads.


So you're left with the usual "no need to prove" rhetoric because you think your assertions carry that much authoritative weight.

So far you have made two idiotic assertions that we both know you cannot defend.

1) I call everyone with whom I disagree a liar, and
2) I seek public attention

Your only response is to repeat the assertions along with your insistence that you don't need to support them with evidence because....? Well, because you can't, obviously.

I rest my case. If you had half as much confidence in your arguments as you like to pretend, you wouldn't be hiding behind a pseudonym. You know, that silly thing you used to say qualifies everyone who uses it, a "coward."

Oh the tangled webs you've weaved.
_Jason Bourne
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Re: Dan Peterson is a Coward

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Kevin Graham wrote:Jason, who is making threats? I simply pointed out that Dan's decision to support a despicable character like William Schryver, will follow him throughout his career. I'm willing to let the future decide if that was such a wise idea. He is the only LDS schoalr to go on record and claim Schryver is a victim of a baseless smear campaign. The others seem to have tried to distance themselves from him. I pointed out in a previous thread here that Dan stood up for Schryver over at MAD while refusing to refer to any of the evidence against him. He just assured his readers that the whole thing was a baseless smear campaign, because, well, Dan thinks so.


I perceived your comment that this would haunt him and you promised it would to be a threat. If you just meant that you promised because it would because those who may look at this down the road will likely agree it was a mistake for Dan not to speak out about Schryver's behavior then that is different and not a threat.

I didn't comment over there because I knew it would be deleted and I'd be banned. So I commented over here saying Dan was a hypocrite for giving Schryver a pass like this while condemning so many people who don't even approach Schryver's repugnance.


I agree that is was a Dr Peterson made a mistake on this one. I know some of Will's defenders claim dog pile but the comments and threads speak for themselves. On top of that Will has a history of demeaning and flamboyant comments directed at struggling members and some who are no longer active. I used to recall thinking how odd it was that this fellow prided himself in rooting out those who may be doubting and stumbling, or even not believing but still quietly participating. Yet he also was working towards a respectable position in apologetics.

So on a thread at MAD discussing John Taylor's deception to his French audience regarding polygamy, Dan suddenly turns the entire thread into an anti-Kevin free-for-all. He said I called him a hypocrite over at MD, but didn't explain why. He then said anyone who ever disagrees with me is called a liar or hypocrite or moron or whatever. Hence, no surprise I called John Taylor a liar.


John Taylor did lie about polygamy in France. I even knew that as a TBM when I first discovered his comments.


The fact that Dan ran over to MAD to attack me in this way, knowing perfectly well the mods would never in a million years let my defense stand, proved to me he was a coward. He does this all the time. He never debates anything. He is the epitome of old school apologetics, where successfully smearing a critic is considered "good enough."


Well I have read stuff published by Dan that does more than attack the critic. But yea on the boards I think he does not debate much.
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