Worst LDS talks ever

[_Darth J]

[_Doctor Scratch]

Wow, this is a tall order. Worst LDS talk...ever? Are we limited only to talks that were delivered at General Conference? If not, the pool of candidates is suddenly much larger. Anyhow, some of my picks would be:

1. BKP's "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater than the Intellect"
2. BKP's "Talk to the All-Church Coordinating Council"
3. Vaughn J. Featherstone's "A Self-Inflicted Purging" (this is really quite a sick and demented talk, imho).
4. This isn't really "bad" so much as it's just hilarious and embarrassing, but: Elder Gene Cook's "Conversation with Mick Jagger."
5. Pres. Hinckley's talk at the MMM Memorial is quite disgusting as well.

Oh, and I'm glad that folks brought up Elder C.'s disquieting talk about how the guy who's supposedly such a "real man" because he made his wife suffer for a whole year in agonizing pain just so he could "starve" himself and spring this dumb surprise on her.

[_MsJack]

I expect you won't judge an entire people by something one person said that you disagree with.

How many traditional Christian leaders have said racist or sexist things throughout the centuries? I do not hold you responsible for them.

Kevin asked a question. I answered it. I don't believe I've done any judging on the matter, let alone judging all Mormons by what Hinckley alone said.

I actually think that President Hinckley was touching on a very serious problem. The % of men attending and graduating from college is in rapid decline, and that concerns me very much. I just don't think appealing to machismo by urging the boys not to let themselves get whupped by girls is a good way of addressing the problem.

[_Darth J]

Dallin H. Oaks on divorce:

http://LDS.org/general-conference/2007/ ... e?lang=eng

"Nations that had no divorce law have adopted one, and most nations permitting divorces have made them easier to obtain. Unfortunately, under current no-fault divorce laws, it can be easier to sever a marriage relationship with an unwanted spouse than an employment relationship with an unwanted employee."

Some of the most hilariously disingenuous hyperbole I have ever seen is a former Utah Supreme Court justice actually saying that getting a divorce is easier than firing an at-will employee.

Generally, you don't need to file a petition and get a decree from a judge to fire an at-will employee.

"Some even refer to a first marriage as a “starter marriage,” like a small home one uses for a while before moving on."

That's an after-the-fact joke to help people cope with the loss after going through a divorce, you oblivious douchebag. In the hundred or so divorce cases I have done, I have never seen a single person say that they originally got married as an experiment.

"When a marriage is dead and beyond hope of resuscitation, it is needful to have a means to end it. I saw examples of this in the Philippines. Two days after their temple marriage, a husband deserted his young wife and has not been heard from for over 10 years. A married woman fled and obtained a divorce in another country, but her husband, who remained behind, is still married in the eyes of the Philippine law. Since there is no provision for divorce in that country, these innocent victims of desertion have no way to end their married status and go forward with their lives."

But you just said it was wrong to loosen divorce laws. Remember?

"I strongly urge you and those who advise you to face up to the reality that for most marriage problems, the remedy is not divorce but repentance. Often the cause is not incompatibility but selfishness. The first step is not separation but reformation."

If you say your prayers, your spouse will magically turn into a different person.

"Divorce is not an all-purpose solution, and it often creates long-term heartache."

As opposed to living out your life in a loveless, unfulfilling marriage, which creates happiness.

"There are many good Church members who have been divorced. I speak first to them. We know that many of you are innocent victims—members whose former spouses persistently betrayed sacred covenants or abandoned or refused to perform marriage responsibilities for an extended period. Members who have experienced such abuse have firsthand knowledge of circumstances worse than divorce."

But then:

"We know that children raised in a single-parent home after divorce have a much higher risk for drug and alcohol abuse, sexual promiscuity, poor school performance, and various kinds of victimization."

So, remember: there are many good Church members who have been divorced, whose kids will be alcoholic, drug-addicted sluts who flunk out of school. Thank goodness we can turn to our church leaders for comfort messages!

"To avoid so-called 'incompatibility,' they should be best friends, kind and considerate, sensitive to each other’s needs, always seeking to make each other happy. They should be partners in family finances, working together to regulate their desires for temporal things."

And while I'm at it, I'd like a pony for Christmas.

"If you are already descending into the low state of marriage-in-name-only, please join hands, kneel together, and prayerfully plead for help and the healing power of the Atonement. Your humble and united pleadings will bring you closer to the Lord and to each other and will help you in the hard climb back to marital harmony."

Unless, of course, religious differences are one of the problems. In such cases, the clear solution is that the spouse who isn't quite sure that Dallin H. Oaks is really an apostle of Jesus Christ just needs to get his or her crap together.

"One study found 'no evidence that divorce or separation typically made adults happier than staying in an unhappy marriage. Two out of three unhappily married adults who avoided divorce reported being happily married five years later.'"

Of course, since "happiness" is a subjective, ephemeral concept, and since the couples who did not get divorced have no basis for comparison, it may be that the conclusions of this study are somewhat questionable.

"We cannot control and we are not responsible for the choices of others, even when they impact us so painfully. I am sure the Lord loves and blesses husbands and wives who lovingly try to help spouses struggling with such deep problems as pornography or other addictive behavior or with the long-term consequences of childhood abuse."

Remember: every divorced person is either addicted to pornography, addicted to drugs, or was molested or beaten as a child.

"In conclusion, I speak briefly to those contemplating marriage. The best way to avoid divorce from an unfaithful, abusive, or unsupportive spouse is to avoid marriage to such a person."

It is the brilliant, penetrating insights like this that tell me the Lord gives inspired counsel to our church leaders.


"If you wish to marry well, inquire well. Associations through “hanging out” or exchanging information on the Internet are not a sufficient basis for marriage."

This from a leader in a church that tells missionaries to commit people to baptism in the second discussion.

"There should be dating, followed by careful and thoughtful and thorough courtship. There should be ample opportunities to experience the prospective spouse’s behavior in a variety of circumstances."

You know, Elder Oaks, a lot of people have marital problems because they are not sexually compatible. What advice would you give to our members contemplating marriage to avoid such problems?

[_Simon Belmont]

Yeah, just like if the spouse who chooses to focus on her or his career gets sick or has surgery but has no accumulated vacation times should just insist that his or or her partner just go to work for her or him, right Darth J?

Shall I take your non-response to mean that you are abandoning your previous idea that I missed 70% of the message because I can't see non-verbal cues in the written word?

It was an perfect response for something so trivial with which you have taken such a serious stance. It is not I who "die[s] on every hill," it is you and your friends who take the most unimportant and trivial matters and use them as clubs with which to beat the organization you hate with so much fervor. You attack upon every hill.

Was not the purported message of Christofferson's talk about being a man? Why can't a man just pick up the slack without needing to have his partner "insist" on it?

So now you believe that a man must control his wife and force her to behave in a certain way against her will? That's pretty sexist.

What's really sexist is you believing that the woman in the story is so weak and incapable that she is unable to do the ironing while in pain.

Otherwise known as, "the point of the f*****g story," which is the explicit reason why the husband bought the machine that does the ironing.

As usual, you miss the point with such inaccuracy that you may have hit another point located so far beyond any reasonable comprehension as to exist in your own little universe.

The point of the story is that we are to help one another in times of need. That's it. In this case it was the husbands duty to help his wife in a way that he believed was the right way. It could have easily been reversed in a different story.

Hmm, let me ponder that.......yes, I'm pretty sure that what I am ridiculing is an unverifiable anecdote about a man knowingly allowing his wife to experience recurring physical pain for a year so he could save up to buy a machine that would spare him the indignity of having to iron his own clothes.

Wholly, utterly incorrect. How's the weather over there in Darth J land?

This isn't about ironing. It's about you and your friends turning this harmless little anecdote into a club with which to beat the institution you loathe so much.

[_Simon Belmont]

I actually think that President Hinckley was touching on a very serious problem. The % of men attending and graduating from college is in rapid decline, and that concerns me very much. I just don't think appealing to machismo by urging the boys not to let themselves get whupped by girls is a good way of addressing the problem.

It depends on thie audience. In a young women's meeting this would have been addressed the same way to young women.

[_Doctor Scratch]

The point of the story is that we are to help one another in times of need.

Is it? Because the guy in the story waited an entire year--during which time his wife was in horrible pain--before doing anything that resembled "help".

[_DarkHelmet]

The point of the story is that we are to help one another in times of need.

Is it? Because the guy in the story waited an entire year--during which time his wife was in horrible pain--before doing anything that resembled "help".

When my wife had appendicitis she was bed ridden for a few days. I didn't know who would cook and do the dishes. She couldn't stand without being in great pain. I remembered this talk and came up with a solution. I carried her from her bed to the kitchen and sat her in a chair in front of the range so she could cook without standing up. After dinner I slid her chair to the sink so she could do the dishes. Me and my 5 sons took turns carrying her from the bedroom to the kitchen and back until she recovered.

[Guest]

It was an perfect response for something so trivial with which you have taken such a serious stance. It is not I who "die[s] on every hill," it is you and your friends who take the most unimportant and trivial matters and use them as clubs with which to beat the organization you hate with so much fervor. You attack upon every hill.

It turns out that when the Church claims to have divinely inspired counsel delivered to us through its leaders, the content of messages from those leaders is relevant as to how much credence the Church is entitled.

Was not the purported message of Christofferson's talk about being a man? Why can't a man just pick up the slack without needing to have his partner "insist" on it?

So now you believe that a man must control his wife and force her to behave in a certain way against her will? That's pretty sexist.

Seldom has a more blatant, virulent sexist statement been made on this board than the suggestion that if a wife is crying in pain from doing the ironing, maybe her husband could take a turn.

As usual, you miss the point with such inaccuracy that you may have hit another point located so far beyond any reasonable comprehension as to exist in your own little universe.

But who's to say my own little universe exists? Or that I exist? Or that this universe exists?

The point of the story is that we are to help one another in times of need. That's it. In this case it was the husbands duty to help his wife in a way that he believed was the right way. It could have easily been reversed in a different story.

You'll remember the story of the good Samaritan, and how instead of helping the guy who was lying right there in trouble at that moment, the good Samaritan went without lunches for a year so he could buy a camel for the guy to ride on.

Hmm, let me ponder that.......yes, I'm pretty sure that what I am ridiculing is an unverifiable anecdote about a man knowingly allowing his wife to experience recurring physical pain for a year so he could save up to buy a machine that would spare him the indignity of having to iron his own clothes.

Wholly, utterly incorrect.

Nope, I'm pretty sure that's what I'm saying.

How's the weather over there in Darth J land?

The importance of Mormon Discussions is not tied to any specific geographical location, but in its ability to bring us closer to Darth J.

This isn't about ironing. It's about you and your friends

Yes, me and my friends. This message board is just another open front continuing on from the War in Heaven.

turning this harmless little anecdote into a club with which to beat the institution you loathe so much.

In your opinion, Simon Belmont, what would be a good method of evaluating the value of what LDS leaders have to say?

And I think the point is not that the anecdote is "harmless" so much as it is vapid.

[_just me]

When my wife had appendicitis she was bed ridden for a few days. I didn't know who would cook and do the dishes. She couldn't stand without being in great pain. I remembered this talk and came up with a solution. I carried her from her bed to the kitchen and sat her in a chair in front of the range so she could cook without standing up. After dinner I slid her chair to the sink so she could do the dishes. Me and my 5 sons took turns carrying her from the bedroom to the kitchen and back until she recovered.

LMAO