If Adam and Eve are not real and if no literal fall

[_Jason Bourne]

Jersey

I will get to your post. I am just doing stuff in between painting a kitchen and dining room and now since I am very hungry I need to go cook an omelet.

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey

I will get to your post. I am just doing stuff in between painting a kitchen and dining room and now since I am very hungry I need to go cook an omelet.

You know I was kidding with you, right? Enjoy your omelet...and painting. Me, I'm getting ready for a little cook out and spending part of the weekend sanding a deck.

I totally understand!

Jersey Girl
The pest
:-)

[_Hoops]

You mean 4:8? That verse is passed the wedding at the end of chapter 3, after she gets out of her bed and searches for her lover in the night, finds him, clings to him, and brings him to the chamber where she was conceived, and tells the chorus of women not to awaken love until it's ready, for obvious reasons.

Sex before marriage. There is good reason why this book was universally read as allegory from the beginning of the Common Era till historical criticism began. How do you square the highly erotic language that is clearly lust in the heart of two people before marriage?

You only said they weren't married.

[_Buffalo]

...So it seems to me that take away a literal Adam and a literal fall then why not take away the need for a literal savior?

Exactly. We only need a metaphorical savior to save us from a metaphorical fall.

That's the long and short of it.

[_bcspace]

So to comment on my post above, I think it highly improbable that there is a literal Adam and Eve that walked out of the Garden of Eden some 6000 or so years ago. I think it as improbable as the Noah story of a world wide flood. I think it unlikely all humanity in its diverse races and cultures all come from Adam and Eve just 6000 years ago, or Noah and his family about 4000 years ago. I think archeological records dispute this severely.

I don;t think there is any problem at all. cf. my Evolution hypothesis. LDS doctrine is quite clear that there is a literal Adam and Eve and a Fall, but it is not clear as to what is and is not figurative about that acount except for the rib account which according to doctrine is figurative. That same doctrione also leaves open much of the account to be figurative.

To carry it further, if there was no Adam, Eve and Fall then God did not create a world with no death and as a paradise. There was no intention that human kind would be in this paradisaical state from the beginning and Adam's fall did not introduce sin and death into the world.

And thus all Christianity would be false, yes. But there is nothing scientific precluding the existence of Adam and Eve, a state of ne death, or the Fall.

It seems to me that based on orthodox Christianity had Adam not fallen we would be in paradise today with no sin or death. Thus we would have not needed a savior. The need for Jesus is linked directly to the fall of Adam which brought about sin and death. No literal fall of Adam no need for Jesus to save us.

The problem with nonLDS Christianity is that for them, the garden was to be the state of man and that the Fall was a mistake. The Bible however tells us that the mission of Jesus was planned beforehand and thus the Fall was part of the plan. 1 Peter 1:19-20

[_Buffalo]

And thus all Christianity would be false, yes. But there is nothing scientific precluding the existence of Adam and Eve, a state of ne death, or the Fall.

Except for, you know, pretty much all sciences studying the earth, human history and biological evolution.

[_bcspace]

But there is nothing scientific precluding the existence of Adam and Eve, a state of ne death, or the Fall.

Except for, you know, pretty much all sciences studying the earth, human history and biological evolution.

How so?

[_Buffalo]

How so?

We can find no period in the existence of earth where humanity or any other species enjoyed a deathless existence.

I'm sure, however, you can find many Adams and many Eves in the phonebook.

[_Jersey Girl]

So to comment on my post above, I think it highly improbable that there is a literal Adam and Eve that walked out of the Garden of Eden some 6000 or so years ago. I think it as improbable as the Noah story of a world wide flood. I think it unlikely all humanity in its diverse races and cultures all come from Adam and Eve just 6000 years ago, or Noah and his family about 4000 years ago. I think archeological records dispute this severely.

To carry it further, if there was no Adam, Eve and Fall then God did not create a world with no death and as a paradise. There was no intention that human kind would be in this paradisaical state from the beginning and Adam's fall did not introduce sin and death into the world.

Bourne,

I'm a little confused, but I'm going with it. :-) In the above, you say you think it "unlikely all humanity in its diverse races and cultures all come from Adam and Eve just 6000 years ago, or Noah and his family about 4000 years ago."

So, I'm confused about a couple of things here. Why do you date Adam and Eve at 6K years ago in time? What is your basis for that?

I took to reading a little wiki about Genesis and this is what it says:

Tradition credits Moses as the author of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, but the books are in fact anonymous and look back on Moses as a figure from the distant past;[3] some traditions contained in Genesis are as old as the United Monarchy, but modern scholars increasingly see it as a product of the 6th and 5th centuries BC.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Genesis

What does this mean? Is the article saying that modern scholars view the book (not the story, the book itself) as a product of the 6th and 5th centuries BC, and the story itself looks at Moses as a "figure from the distant past", then why do we think the story "in time" took place 6K years ago?

Am I making any sense here?

Let me try that one another way.

If the book itself is a product of the 6th and 5th centuries BC and the stories preceeded the book via orality of the ancient tribes, then where are we coming up with the creation is 6K years old piece?

Third time's a charm. :-)

The ancients told these stories for generations and finally, someone wrote them down into book (scroll) form at or around 6th/5th centuries BC, and now we're claiming that Adam/Eve/Creation were literally 6K years old?

How does that make sense?

[_RockSlider]

I saw this movie for the first time yesterday ... laughed my silly head off ...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1058017/

Adam and Eve are as real as my upcoming, personal mansion in heaven!
Hey, the pizza box tablets say it’s so!