Something Troubling in Sunday School

[_Yoda]

Why Me--

I notice that you chose to respond to my question regarding sex while ignoring my other two responses to your prior posts:

viewtopic.php?p=497623#p497623

viewtopic.php?p=497612#p497612

Care to tackle either one?

[_just me]

I was always taught that the most important mission I could serve was to have babies and raise them in the church.

This makes me really sad, for you and or all women in the church. But especially for you.

I am so glad my daughter will never grow up to hear this message, but I'm still very sad that you felt your life had only one purpose. You are way more than a baby factory.

H.

(((hug))) I am so happy for your daughter, too. I hope that I can avoid having this message impact my own daughter the way it did me.

[_MsJack]

If women had equal rights, would they also be willing to accept equal responsibility? I think not.

Someone is bitter.

Yeah, but at least he acknowledges that Mormon women do not have equal rights. That's a lot further than most of the defenders on these threads ever get.

[_consiglieri]

[qu
Honestly, consiglieri? Under ordinary circumstances, I would find your friend's sentiment vaguely misandrist. Maybe it's just me, but there's something about fixating on the shape of someone's anatomy like that which strikes me as rather ugly and dehumanizing. As if it's not a person anymore, it's a penis. I don't like that.

However, these weren't ordinary circumstances; you said that your friend is a sexual abuse victim. So I think your story helps to illustrate precisely why both genders should be available to perform ordinances. It probably would have been less awkward and uncomfortable for your friend if she could have been surrounded by women instead.

I am being totally honest with you. It also might help if the woman could just stand up while being confirmed.

I had frankly never thought of this before it was mentioned to me by my friend in 1994, but the image was so strong that I have never been in that position (whether laying on hands or having hands laid on me) without being reminded of her sentiment . . . and feeling a tad uncomfortable myself.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_just me]

Yeah, but at least he acknowledges that Mormon women do not have equal rights. That's a lot further than most of the defenders on these threads ever get.

Perhaps the most damaging part of all of this is the belief that the inequality is God sanctioned. I think that makes it even more damaging than if it was seen as manmade.

What does it do to a girl's individual worth when she believes that God does not see her as equal to her brothers?

[_why me]

No surprise there. I've often suspected that you jerk it as you write creepy posts on this forum. Please don't confirm it even if I'm right. I don't want to know.

Do you believe that men would be shy about talking about their sexual sins to women? I don't think so. Men would have a much more difficult time talking sexual issues with other men in authority.

Liz was walking down the wrong road with her statement.

[_consiglieri]

I think that you missed the boat on this one. Why is the age limit for women at 21? For one simple reason: to allow them to get married to a return missionary.

And you don't see this as remotely sexist?

[_consiglieri]

Again you are missing the boat.

This is not a love boat. This is a hate boat.

The LDS church does not teach that women do not need an education.

I take it you have never heard of the M.R.S. Degree offered at BYU?

They, the women, preside in the home . . .

Now I know you are pulling my . . . leg.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

I am not shouting at all. I am just posting a public announcement. Since consig you are an active member of the church, it is up to you to lead a prayer group asking heavenly father to allow women to hold the priesthood. You still believe that he is the head of the LDS church right?

Given how slow the white Mormon God was to hear prayers to lift the priesthood ban on blacks, I would think it more expeditious to address our petitions regarding lifting the priesthood ban on women to His Better Half.

Heavenly Mother also holds the Priesthood.

Else she would not be a Priestess.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

What is so strange is how feminized the gospel is, yet how patriarchal it is. I really don't get it! Maybe it is a paradox.

You said a total mouthful in that "wall of text," JM, but this is what resonated with me.

The only attributes of God that are extolled seem to be the "feminine." (I know even that sounds sexist, but I hope you will understand what I mean.)

God is "love," "charity," "mercy," "service," and so forth.

God is basically the Relief Society Motto.

I think we intentionally deny God "masculine" attributes because they are much easier to find fault with. And we are loathe to attribute anything remotely "faulty" to God.

And yet, we are left with the fact that God the Father is almost uniformly described as "The Divine Feminine" in a male-dominated Church; a male-driven Church that has pretty much driven Heavenly Mother into the wilderness, not unlike what the serpent does to the woman in Revelation.

So the patriarchy has gotten rid of Heavenly Mother; describes Heavenly Father in "feminine" terms; denies women the priesthood while at the same time preaching that women are morally and spiritually superior to men; and the women have been "carefully taught" to publicly proclaim their gratitude to the patriarchy for being discriminated against.

What is wrong with this picture?

And is it possible it could be remedied in large part by reenthroning Heavenly Mother in the Mormon Deity right alongside, and not subservient to, Heavenly Father?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri