If Adam and Eve are not real and if no literal fall

[_huckelberry]

Ck Salmon observes,"My hunch is that Paul may be less sophisticated than you, Huck."

I think most all of my understanding of Christianity comes directly from Paul. It would be highly unlikely I would consider myself teacher of the teacher. I am even ignorant of the language.

It may be sometime awkward but it is hard to escape the fact that in some limited ways most any somewhat educated modern person is going to be more sophisticated than every and any first century person. I know science and history that every first century human was ignorant of. You should as well.

Are you bringing up, as in Adam all die, etc.? Jason Bourne seems particularly concerned with those comments of Pau. I think the continuation of Pauls discussion in Corinthians shows that Paul is reflecting on the comparison between the natural human, the flesh,(in Adam) and the new human in the Spirit, in the Lord, which is a spiritual being touching eternal life from God and the kingdom of God. I think Paul assumed a literal particular person Adam. He was in possission of no scientic or historic knowlege to indicate otherwise. I am sticking with the observation that I see no logic requiring that Paus conclusions about Salvation, in the Spirit, in the new man, in Jesus,in our sharing Jesus death and rebirth require Adam being a literal human individual. To all I see the salvation in Jesus works just the same whether or not Adam was a specific individual.

We all share Adams sin whether or not Adam is a specific person or not.

[_moksha]

3: If Adam and Eve were not literally real and there was not a literal fall of man then what implications does this have on the orthodox Christian teachings of original sin as well as the need for Jesus Christ to save us?

We know from our own little corner of the Universe that the environment around us can be daunting and dangerous. The idea of having a universal advocate who not only loves and forgives us, but also who is willing to intercede for us, is compelling without any reference to a creation story. The comfort that such a idealized belief brings can also be weakened when tied to less utilitarian stories.
_

[_Pollypinks]

You take most of your understanding of christianity from Paul? Man, that's scary dude. We've reconstructed the Bible over 600 times since Rome got a hold of it, so in my opinion, it's not inerrant. And consider we have no evidence of Paul ministering with Christ. None. Nada.

[_Hoops]

You take most of your understanding of christianity from Paul? Man, that's scary dude. We've reconstructed the Bible over 600 times since Rome got a hold of it, so in my opinion, it's not inerrant. And consider we have no evidence of Paul ministering with Christ. None. Nada.

Uh..... oh, brother. Never mind. Dud.

[_jon]

Hoops,

Do you believe the following two episodes in the Bible are factually and historically accurate?

1. The worldwide flood involving Noah
2. The Tower of Babel and confounding of language

[_Jason Bourne]

How so oh wise one?
:-)

Now don't be coy with my Jersey.... you know well what I mean. ;-)

[_Aristotle Smith]

Jason,

I think this is an important question to ask: How do you define orthodox?

I ask because in my experience Mormons are very unclear on this matter. For example when you say "you aren't orthodox" I think you really mean "You don't lean towards literalist/fundamentalist interpretations of scripture." Historically, that is just plain wrong. I could be wrong that this is how you see matters, but that's the impression I get from interacting with you online.

Orthodox (small "o") in Christianity has a very specific meaning, it usually means you accept the ecumenical councils. That's it. Sometimes, it's even more loose, in that accepting the first six or the first four is sufficient to be orthodox. Orthodox (again, small "o") have been all over the map in how literally they take the Bible.

[_Pollypinks]

Orthodox christianity is 1000% off the mark of fundamentalist, evangelical, christianity. I know because I've belonged to both groups, and found the latter to be lacking in scriptural intent and meaning. Orthodox groups: Catholic, Episcopalian, Presbyterian (me), Methodist, and Lutheran, along with your Greek Orthodox philosophies normally don't go around trying to change people. In an orthodox service you'll have some litergy, or, congregational recitation of certain things. We have several in my church, and it bothered me until I bothered to actually find out why we do it, and what it means to the body whole. There is also prayer that is canned, and this was a huge blocking point to me, but not all prayer is like that. I do not support infant baptism, and in orthodoxy you find this. It is a huge family deal, tons of cameras flashing, people flying in from all over the world to view said baptism. It mostly, in a nutshell, means the child is being welcomed into the body of Christ as a whole, and that the parents are committed to raising the child in the body of Christ. In evangelism, they refuse to participate in ecumenical services of any kind, and refuse to acknowledge those denominations as having the truth that they purport to have. I love our ecumenical service each November, celebrating the Harvest Festival, and all churches are invited. It is held in a catholic church downtown, and all reformed churches come, and several LDS churches from outlying areas come and participate in the joined choir performance. Each year a different church has the job of delivering the talk, or sermon, or whatever. One year it will be the buddhists, the next the Mormons, the next, the bai hai's, you get my drift. And it starts with the sounding of the instrument used back in the days to call the villagers to meet, and I can't think of the name of it. Too damn much lithium. And people come in waving huge flags and symbols, and I just fell in love with the notion that we were all coming together as a sign of peace and unconditional love within the community. Afterwards, we break bread together and have a whopping good time. I love my life in orthodoxy.

[_Hoops]

So all roads lead to salvation. Okay. Got it.

[_Hoops]

And people come in waving huge flags and symbols, and I just fell in love with the notion that we were all coming together as a sign of peace and unconditional love within the community. Afterwards, we break bread together and have a whopping good time. I love my life in orthodoxy.

HOw wonderfully sweet. It must be true then.