Why People Dislike Mormons

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Patriarchal gripe
_Emeritus
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:10 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Patriarchal gripe »

Themis wrote:
Patriarchal gripe wrote:Look hard, because you are fooling yourself if you think you are motivated ONLY by your intellectual honesty, or inversely, your righteousness and saintly faith.


We need to be careful here. Although many leave for many different reasons, most not even for intellectual reasons, many do stop believing for solely intellectual reasons. We all have our weaknesses, but for many it's all about the intellectual. If not for it they would not even consider leaving. Of course though, are we talking about leaving church or about no longer believing the church is true. Many first stop believing for intellectual reasons solely. They may then choose later to leave church that include other reasons.


I said exactly that in the paragraph you quoted from. I know a few saintly saints, who are ex-saints.

My point is that I have met very few people who have left the church who didn't have other motivating factors that reinforce their own personal biases when they make the decision to leave. It is much more complicated.
_selek
_Emeritus
Posts: 283
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:27 am

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _selek »

why me wrote:
selek wrote:
Times have changed since then. Being a missionary must be much harder now. Not only do missionaries have to overcome the negativity of the mormon-missionary-salesman-complex, "investigators" with an internet connection and half a brain can easily see that the LDS religion is bogus.



I must admit that the internet does do harm to the LDS church. The antimormon critics can use hypos and heresays and give a pretty skewed interpretation of an event. And this does have an influence. However, I don't think that the internet is the main culprit. The main culprit is secular humanism which has taken over much of the mindset these days. Western centered people have a difficult time joining any church and this is why christianity is in decline in the west.


Are not both sides of the Mormonism debate presented on the internet? If the anti-mos are distorting reality or outright lying, and the mopologists are always telling the truth, wouldn't an unbiased investigator be able to make an informed decision?

I think they do make an informed decision. It's just not what you wish.
"There is no shame in watching porn." - why me, 08/15/11

"The answer is: ...poontang." - darricktevenson, 01/10/11

Daniel Peterson is a "Gap-Toothed Lizard Man" - Daniel Peterson, 12/06/08

Copyright© 1915 Simon Belmont, Esq., All Rights Up Your Butt.
_Patriarchal gripe
_Emeritus
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:10 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Patriarchal gripe »

It seems I can leave this thread, but I can't leave it alone.

I also wanted to address in more detail the argument from apologists that apostates leave the church because of "more deep seated" reasons, than the purely intellectual reasons.

My question for the apologist is, if sin is the "more deep seated" reason for apostacy, why don't the remainder of active male members who view porn and masturbate leave the church? Is it because they just haven't found the wonderful support of all the folks at RfM yet? Is it because they are finding rich fulfillment and support in their Addiction Recovery Group?

If the intellectual reason for leaving the church is so weak, why isn't it enough to be the straw that all those poor sinners grasp at to exit the church?

Also, I agree with Why Me about secularism being a huge catalyst in apostacy, not just in Mormonism, but in religion in general, especially in the west. I find it hard to think of that as a bad thing, though. Just spend some time in some of the sandier places we get sent in uniform, and you will see your dream of a religious utopia in real time.
_Hoops
_Emeritus
Posts: 2863
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:11 am

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Hoops »

Patriarchal gripe wrote:
Just spend some time in some of the sandier places we get sent in uniform, and you will see your dream of a religious utopia in real time.


I have yet to meet one Christian who wishes for what you describe. They're out there, but it is a very, very small minority. In fact, in my mc services, this is specifically preached AGAINST. So before you lump Christians in with Mormons, do some homework.
_Patriarchal gripe
_Emeritus
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:10 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Patriarchal gripe »

Hoops wrote:
I have yet to meet one Christian who wishes for what you describe. They're out there, but it is a very, very small minority. In fact, in my mc services, this is specifically preached AGAINST. So before you lump Christians in with Mormons, do some homework.


Actually, the lumping was a little larger than Mormons and Christians. I was lumping religion. Do your own homework, or at least read what I actually wrote.
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Themis »

Patriarchal gripe wrote:
My point is that I have met very few people who have left the church who didn't have other motivating factors that reinforce their own personal biases when they make the decision to leave. It is much more complicated.


Most leave the church don't even know about the intellectual reasons. For those who do I would say that it is solely the intellectual reasons that they leave. Without the intellectual reasons, most here would never have left. It's just easy to blame other things that exist among those who have no plans of leaving or stop believing.

If the intellectual reason for leaving the church is so weak, why isn't it enough to be the straw that all those poor sinners grasp at to exit the church?


To the apologist, there are no intellectual reasons, because to them the church is true, so other factors must be the reasons.
42
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Themis »

why me wrote:
I must admit that the internet does do harm to the LDS church. The antimormon critics can use hypos and heresays and give a pretty skewed interpretation of an event. And this does have an influence. However, I don't think that the internet is the main culprit. The main culprit is secular humanism which has taken over much of the mindset these days. Western centered people have a difficult time joining any church and this is why christianity is in decline in the west.


While secularism does have an affect, which is a good thing, the internet has a large effect on the LDS church that other religions don't have to worry about. This can I think be seen with declining baptisms in western countries during the 1990's as the internet started to really spread. Today it is easy for members or investigators to get information from critic or apologetic sites. Apologetic sites are the most damaging to members.
42
_hatersinmyward
_Emeritus
Posts: 671
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 3:12 am

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _hatersinmyward »

People who are trying to buy their way to the top have sad perspective.

Over all I don't think the average Mormon wants to use other members to make money.

As far as Health Insurance goes I'm all for a cash only system. It's getting to the point where the health-care industry is taking advantage of people who have insurance so they can get by themselves. So yes, I am for Nationalized Health-Care.
_Morley
_Emeritus
Posts: 3542
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Morley »

Personally, I left for solely intellectual reasons and didn't even (for instance) taste coffee until I was in my mid-thirties. That said, having known the weak arguments for the Church, and having sinned with that dark, liquid mistress, the argument for coffee is much stronger.

Besides, I'm certain that many would see 'intellect' as sin. That's fine with me.
_Hoops
_Emeritus
Posts: 2863
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:11 am

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Hoops »


Actually, the lumping was a little larger than Mormons and Christians. I was lumping religion. Do your own homework, or at least read what I actually wrote.

You mentioned the M.E., where there are a majority of religionists who actually DO want a theocracy. So it's reasonable to include them in your lumping, I, mistakenly, thought that was obvious. Do you even know what you write?
Post Reply