selek wrote: Are not both sides of the Mormonism debate presented on the internet? If the anti-mos are distorting reality or outright lying, and the mopologists are always telling the truth, wouldn't an unbiased investigator be able to make an informed decision?
I think they do make an informed decision. It's just not what you wish.
Yes, there are. I have to admit that I was a victim of antimormon websites at one time. When I first began to read them I was shell shocked. But once I began to read the apologist point of view I began to see through what exactly was being written by critic sites. I also began to seriously look into some of the critics claims and began a good questioning process.
The critics have persuasive writing skills down to a tee. They certainly know argumentative writing and then when they put into the mix heresay and hypos into their arguments it becomes difficult to wade through the quicksand.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
moksha wrote: The Old timers who used to live on 90th South in Sandy, Utah never knew much about the neighbors across the street, since the middle of their street had served as a stake boundary for many years. Had they been in the same stake but just different wards, they would have crossed paths occasionally. Not so with a different stake. The ward was their world and the stake represented the boundary where you would fall off the edge of that world.
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This is exactly true. And this is one reason why I said that Mormons are rather busy people. For many in Utah and the surrounding area, the ward is their home and friendships are made in church. But how many of these people get together duirng the week day without church sponsorship is questionable. I don't think that many people are getting together to go bowling just for the heck of it. And for new members who come on sunday will find people running everywhere to do their calling or to attend a meeting. And certainly small groups are formed in the ward but in general, people are busy.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
RockSlider wrote: The people you associate with the most are those in your ward boundary, when ward boundaries change (Heber experienced 40% growth in the last 10 years), a previous ward member right across the street, whom you associated with several times a week, for years, becomes all but a stranger when a boundary change hits the street between you. Mormon ward families are very busy and very consumptive of your time. It's not out of spite that these old acquaintances are lost, simply out of not enough hours in the day.
All true. And this is why I question Kevin's thread. Former Mormons seem to forget the ideas you just presented. I never liked splits in the ward or stake because I knew people I used to see often would be less seen and maybe even lost until stake conference or worse, if they are now in a different stake, never again.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
RockSlider wrote: The people you associate with the most are those in your ward boundary, when ward boundaries change (Heber experienced 40% growth in the last 10 years), a previous ward member right across the street, whom you associated with several times a week, for years, becomes all but a stranger when a boundary change hits the street between you. Mormon ward families are very busy and very consumptive of your time. It's not out of spite that these old acquaintances are lost, simply out of not enough hours in the day.
All true. And this is why I question Kevin's thread. Former Mormons seem to forget the ideas you just presented. I never liked splits in the ward or stake because I knew people I used to see often would be less seen and maybe even lost until stake conference or worse, if they are now in a different stake, never again.
This makes these relationships more like those formed at work than anything else, not actual friendships but "close working acquaintanceships". This strikes me as very sad.
why me wrote: All true. And this is why I question Kevin's thread. Former Mormons seem to forget the ideas you just presented. I never liked splits in the ward or stake because I knew people I used to see often would be less seen and maybe even lost until stake conference or worse, if they are now in a different stake, never again.
This makes these relationships more like those formed at work than anything else, not actual friendships but "close working acquaintanceships". This strikes me as very sad.
Sad, but true. It is one of the things I most dislike about 'Mormons' as a body of people (not all, because there are a tiny minority exception to this) is that their 'friendship' is completely conditional on you maintaining a level of belief in, and compliance to, Mormonism. There is a mountain of anecdotes where people who have left the Church are treated as a special project and generally shunned by people they once considered their friends.
Mormon friendship, in my experience, is not genuine.
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)
Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
whyme, quoted by café crema wrote:The vast majority of people in Mormonism are converts.
Excuse me? Whyme is talking about the US here?
CFR?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
café crema wrote: This makes these relationships more like those formed at work than anything else, not actual friendships but "close working acquaintanceships". This strikes me as very sad.
Nothing sad about it. It is really no different than a group of people meeting at church, enjoying each others fellowship and then when it is over , all go home. No different than any Mass and after Mass coffee hour. Sometimes friendships are made and quite often not. But all know each other from church. Outside friendships are found in other places.
I have coffee hour friends in the catholic church that I speak with at coffee hour. And I have closer friends that may or may not be catholic or Mormon.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Here is what the leadership of the Church counsels on choosing friends.
True friendships are based on love of God and sharing that love with others. (Elder Ronald A. Rasband Of the Presidency of the Seventy)
Mormon's therefore, are counselled against friendships with: apostates, atheists, agnostics, bhuddists, muslims etc. That kind of limits you. If you are friends with someone at Church and they decide they no longer believe in God, Mormons are conditioned to reject them.
That is unlike any other religion I've ever come across.
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)
Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
selek wrote:Interesting perspective. Did you remain friends after you were baptized? If not, did it have anything to do with what you describe as being "used"?
We did remain friends after this experience, and I never told him how it made me feel.
I am left with the reality that if people are going to be taught and baptized, it makes sense that some degree of organization and planning are required.
But when I personally found out that I had been organized and planned about, it made me feel like a project.
Hence my ambivalence.
All the Best!
--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
selek wrote:Interesting perspective. Did you remain friends after you were baptized? If not, did it have anything to do with what you describe as being "used"?
We did remain friends after this experience, and I never told him how it made me feel.
I am left with the reality that if people are going to be taught and baptized, it makes sense that some degree of organization and planning are required.
But when I personally found out that I had been organized and planned about, it made me feel like a project.
Hence my ambivalence.
All the Best!
--Consiglieri
How did you feel about your friends' Mormon leaders that you no doubt learned at some point in time encouraged him to befriend (they specifically call it, fellowship) non-Mormons with an aim towards baptizing them? I do not fault your friend, after all he was likely under immense social pressure and 'fear of the Mormon god' to do just what he did.