Why People Dislike Mormons

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Infymus
_Emeritus
Posts: 1584
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:10 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Infymus »

Kevin, Mormons can never just "be friends". They will always have an ulterior motive - and that is to convert you to Mormonism. If that doesn't work, then you will be labeled as "hard of heart" and you will be avoided.

In the February 2005 issue of the LDS Church magazine, the "Ensign", the following has been posted:

"Ideal Mormons" and "Deep Friendships":

The first two lessons, which we learned early in our efforts to be good member missionaries, have made sharing the gospel much easier: We simply can’t predict who will or won’t be interested in the gospel, and building a friendship is not a prerequisite to inviting people to learn about the gospel. We discovered these principles when we were newlyweds and the missionaries in our ward asked us to make a list of people with whom we could share the gospel. We were to start with those at the top of our list and begin “preparing” them through a twelve-step process. First, we were to invite them to our home for dinner and follow that by going to a cultural event together. The sixth, seventh, and eighth steps were to invite them to church, give them a copy of the Book of Mormon, and ask them to take the missionary discussions. The program culminated in the twelfth step—baptism.

We dutifully made this list, placing those we thought most likely to be interested in the gospel at the top. They looked like “ideal Mormons”—people whose values, such as clean living and commitment to family, mirrored our own. We then began building deeper friendships with them, adding additional social events to our already busy lives. One by one, those we thought might be interested in learning about the gospel declined our invitations when we got to steps six through eight. Our invitations didn’t offend them, but in their own way they told us they were happy in their present approach to religion. After much work over many months, we didn’t find anyone who was interested in learning more about the gospel..


Mormons live in a little world full of wards, callings, missions, book of Mormons, ensigns, funeral potatoes and green jello. Nothing else exists outside. If you don't fit their mold, you just don't fit.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Dan Vogel wrote:Kevin,

Dan Vogel wrote a book with Metcalfe that directly challenged Dan Peterson's arguments. I can't remember the name right now, but I can get it if you want. I think my point is on solid ground. Dan doesn't get along with anyone who dares challenge his authority or does anything to undermine his Rock Star status.


The book is American Apocrypha, which includes my essay “Anti-Masonry Revisited” that largely responded to DCP’s response to my original 1989 essay. So, we’ve been at it for a long while now. I just don’t take it personally. I think some critics get themselves into trouble because they are ill prepared for someone who is a professional apologist. I would advise them to read at least one good book on debate. That will help them avoid the pit falls they get themselves into with DCP and other apologists.


Thanks Dan. I also remember a heated feud between FARMS and Signature Books some years ago. I believe either you or George Smith wrote a blistering response to at attack made by FARMS. It was linked to the Signature Books website but is no longer available. Or is it? I also remember Dan Peterson making such a big stink of you calling Joseph Smith a pious fraud. I also remember him referring to your books as not very good. He's just never had anything good to say about you or your scholarship, from what I have seen.

Like I said, Dan Peterson doesn't like anyone who dares challenge his authority. If you know your place, keep your distance and your mouth shut, you might have a chance to fall in his good graces. Otherwise you're his enemy.

But I disagree with you if you're trying to say Dan is a master of debate. He doesn't debate, period. When has he ever debated anyone aside from that silly tag-team spat he and Hamblin had with James White ten years ago? The only reason they entered that "debate" was because they had a laundry list of criticisms about White's book, knowing perfectly well White wouldn't have any idea what they were going to present. Of course this would mean they'd leave the debate victorious. Dan only picks the battles he knows he can win, and when he accidentally steps foot into a situation where he realizes he can't win, he suddenly has to attend to his academic duties and leave the forum for a while until the situation blows over.
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Themis »

why me wrote:
Yes, there are. I have to admit that I was a victim of antimormon websites at one time.


Somehow I doubt that. :)

When I first began to read them I was shell shocked. But once I began to read the apologist point of view I began to see through what exactly was being written by critic sites.


Apologetic sites have done far more damage to the LDS testimony then critic sites. This comes from someone who was an actual active faithful member, having served a mission as well. I had no reason to believe critic sites, so I always researched the apologetic material.

I also began to seriously look into some of the critics claims and began a good questioning process.


Nothing from your posts indicate this, so I am more then a little skeptical.

The critics have persuasive writing skills down to a tee. They certainly know argumentative writing and then when they put into the mix heresay and hypos into their arguments it becomes difficult to wade through the quicksand.


Actually much of it is very poor, especially the EV stuff. Ev have always been a great target of apologetics for this reason. LDS apologetics has a lot more money and manpower, so if the evidence was in their favor they should be gaining converts from it, and easily maintaining members. This is just not the case though.
42
_sock puppet
_Emeritus
Posts: 17063
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _sock puppet »

Infymus wrote:Kevin, Mormons can never just "be friends". They will always have an ulterior motive - ...

Before I read further, it jumped into my mind that you were saying there can never be a platonic relationship with a Mormon. Thanks, Infymus, for the chuckle, on this Monday morning.
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Themis »

Infymus wrote:Kevin, Mormons can never just "be friends". They will always have an ulterior motive - and that is to convert you to Mormonism. If that doesn't work, then you will be labeled as "hard of heart" and you will be avoided.


While the church tends to push this, and has created this problem, I find most members not this way. Growing up I never tried to convert my non-lds friends. As a missionary one of the biggest things we lamented about was the lack of members talking to their friends and family about the church. It took a while after my mission to see that this was a good thing. While most members would like to, most know this is a bad idea, and could hurt relationships. Of course we always had a few who went over board talking to everyone they could about it, and they usually ended up with few friends in or out of the church.
42
_Infymus
_Emeritus
Posts: 1584
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:10 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Infymus »

I think the missionaries showing up on my doorstep this weekend is a part of this. The Mormon bishop in my neighborhood knows damned well I am not a member and I'm not interested. Yet he and the zone leader send missionaries to my house all the time to see if "Is there anything we can do for you?" What a sick, twisted, disgusting set of words that are always used by Mormons.

Every year HQ sends out a new proclamation to try and reactivate. The sheeple comply.

Those that haven't had their names removed but request no contact are once again bothered. It is an endless cycle and HQ couldn't care less - they know what they're doing.

The only way to stop it is to remove your name. And even then you'll still get hit with missionaries because some zone leader will be on his knees thinking he is inspired to send two young kids to your doorstep.

Mormons are creepy, just plain and simple, they are creepy. Always on the hunt for those they can convert or activate. And when you finally get straight with them and tell them that under no circumstances are you going to join their cult - suddenly they get offended.

Mormons are like that dirty uncle that always wants to touch you in all the wrong ways.
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Buffalo »

Yahoo Bot wrote:Yer not only a critic but a mean spirited enemy. And wrong. You must travel in odd circles.


Yahoo Bot is a perfect example of what many of these plastic Ken doll Mormons are like when they think no one is looking.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Buffalo »

Kevin Graham wrote:It is the epitome of tribal mentality that is exhibited in bigoted characters like William Schryver and Pahoran. Whenever decent Mormons like David Bokovoy or Don Bradley show friendliness towards those they have categorized as "enemies," suddenly their loyalty to the Church is questioned. Schryver has predicted the apostasy of more members than I care to keep track of. He encourages the kind of social attitude that makes so many people dislike Mormons in generaal.


Yes, and that's cultish behavior. Whenever I see it it makes me think I'm being too charitable in classifying the LDS Church as being a former cult.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Buffalo »

why me wrote:
malaise wrote:That is very true, and it is one of the main reasons many people stay in the church even after they realize that Mormon doctrine is nonsense. It hurts to be rejected by your family just because you were honest with them.


This is not my experience at all.


Your experience is irrelevant. You were never Mormon.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: Why People Dislike Mormons

Post by _Buffalo »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:Kevin,

Thank you sir for this excellent OP. I hope someday that this is preached from the pulpit at General Conference. Insincerity and pushiness are hallmarks of Utah Mormonism. Although, I have noticed that the farther away from "Zion" one moves, the less of a problem this becomes.

I loved this advice:

From the OP wrote:I'd like to see us focus less on converting others to our lifestyle, and simply live so that our lifestyle becomes more attractive to others. There is only one character trait you can demonstrate that other people will find irresistible, and that trait is kindness. "In the end," as the song goes, "Only kindness matters."



I was never a Utah Mormon, and I always found them irritating. I always wondered why the most phony people were coming out of Utah, when Utah was the center of the True Church.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
Post Reply