CSA wrote: I get it, spirituality can not be defined or measured against someone else's spirituality.
Even individuals have trouble. Just look at the material the church has published and you can see that people from Joseph on down can't tell the difference, and that the methods given are pathetic and circular.
It can only be measured by the person in regards to what they feel possibly before and after. I suggested to the Stake High Counsel and the Stake Presidency that I noticed with some of the people I have worked with in regards to their own perceived spirituality that those who have learned to follow the Word of Wisdom more precisely seem to describe a greater sense of spirituality for doing it. We were going to provide web based surveys and invite our Stake to participate in an experiment to see if some of my assumptions were correct. The Stake President delivered a modified letter read in each ward this past Sunday about an upcoming Stake Temple day. This letter did not include the survey information but included the advice to read certain things, to clean the inner vessel in things both mentally, physically and spiritually. A paragraph of the letter was specific to the Word of Wisdom. It included the advice that members look over the Word of Wisdom and determine how best to make improvements in the way a person can live it. His letter mentioned how members have become reliant upon energy drinks and sodas to get them through their day and to reflect upon what good things the Lord has provided to eat and drink.
Although it is good advice for them to encourage people to improve themselves, you still don't show anything in being able to determine your hypothesis.
CSA wrote: I get it, spirituality can not be defined or measured against someone else's spirituality. It can only be measured by the person in regards to what they feel possibly before and after. I suggested to the Stake High Counsel and the Stake Presidency that I noticed with some of the people I have worked with in regards to their own perceived spirituality that those who have learned to follow the Word of Wisdom more precisely seem to describe a greater sense of spirituality for doing it. We were going to provide web based surveys and invite our Stake to participate in an experiment to see if some of my assumptions were correct. The Stake President delivered a modified letter read in each ward this past Sunday about an upcoming Stake Temple day. This letter did not include the survey information but included the advice to read certain things, to clean the inner vessel in things both mentally, physically and spiritually. A paragraph of the letter was specific to the Word of Wisdom. It included the advice that members look over the Word of Wisdom and determine how best to make improvements in the way a person can live it. His letter mentioned how members have become reliant upon energy drinks and sodas to get them through their day and to reflect upon what good things the Lord has provided to eat and drink.
I see you're still setting yourself above your Prophet. knowing just how people are supposed to follow the WOW.
CSA wrote: I get it, spirituality can not be defined or measured against someone else's spirituality. It can only be measured by the person in regards to what they feel possibly before and after. I suggested to the Stake High Counsel and the Stake Presidency that I noticed with some of the people I have worked with in regards to their own perceived spirituality that those who have learned to follow the Word of Wisdom more precisely seem to describe a greater sense of spirituality for doing it. We were going to provide web based surveys and invite our Stake to participate in an experiment to see if some of my assumptions were correct. The Stake President delivered a modified letter read in each ward this past Sunday about an upcoming Stake Temple day. This letter did not include the survey information but included the advice to read certain things, to clean the inner vessel in things both mentally, physically and spiritually. A paragraph of the letter was specific to the Word of Wisdom. It included the advice that members look over the Word of Wisdom and determine how best to make improvements in the way a person can live it. His letter mentioned how members have become reliant upon energy drinks and sodas to get them through their day and to reflect upon what good things the Lord has provided to eat and drink.
I see you're still setting yourself above your Prophet. knowing just how people are supposed to follow the WOW.
I have never put myself above the current or past Prophets. Following the Word of Wisdom more precisely simply means to carefully utilize it. There is much in the Word of Wisdom that often is overlooked. Such as using wholesome herbs, fruit which is in season, using good grains and eating meat more sparingly. I think the most important part of the Word of Wisdom has to do not in the physical promises within it but in D&C 89:19 about how following it more precisely will result in wisdom, great treasures of knowledge and hidden treasures. Exactly what I feels happens at a greater degree when following it more precisely. I feel the great and hidden treasures which are spoken of are not of greater intellect but of spiritual intellect.
You know how flawed your faith promoting exercise is right?
1. Spirituality cannot be measured except by asking an individual - do you feel more spiritual? How many do you think are going to say 'Ehm no, living the Word of Wisdom more fully hasn't made me feel any different'? Your sample group has a vested interested in giving you the answer you want.
2. When did the Word of Wisdom become a scalable law? When did it change from either living it or not, to being something that you can live more fully?
3. Wouldn't it be more impressive if you used one of the actual promises given to people living the Word of Wisdom? - 'receive health in their naval and marrow in their bones' - 'find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge' - 'run and not be weary...shall walk and not faint' - 'the destroying angel shall pass them by' All of these are actual promises given (increased spirituality is not promised) can be clearly measured before and after. Why have you picked something that the Word of Wisdom (God) doesn't promise and that can't be measured?
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)
Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
CSA wrote: I get it, spirituality can not be defined or measured against someone else's spirituality. It can only be measured by the person in regards to what they feel possibly before and after. I suggested to the Stake High Counsel and the Stake Presidency that I noticed with some of the people I have worked with in regards to their own perceived spirituality that those who have learned to follow the Word of Wisdom more precisely seem to describe a greater sense of spirituality for doing it. We were going to provide web based surveys and invite our Stake to participate in an experiment to see if some of my assumptions were correct. The Stake President delivered a modified letter read in each ward this past Sunday about an upcoming Stake Temple day. This letter did not include the survey information but included the advice to read certain things, to clean the inner vessel in things both mentally, physically and spiritually. A paragraph of the letter was specific to the Word of Wisdom. It included the advice that members look over the Word of Wisdom and determine how best to make improvements in the way a person can live it. His letter mentioned how members have become reliant upon energy drinks and sodas to get them through their day and to reflect upon what good things the Lord has provided to eat and drink.
café crema wrote:I see you're still setting yourself above your Prophet. knowing just how people are supposed to follow the WOW.
CSA wrote:I have never put myself above the current or past Prophets. Following the Word of Wisdom more precisely simply means to carefully utilize it. There is much in the Word of Wisdom that often is overlooked. Such as using wholesome herbs, fruit which is in season, using good grains and eating meat more sparingly. I think the most important part of the Word of Wisdom has to do not in the physical promises within it but in D&C 89:19 about how following it more precisely will result in wisdom, great treasures of knowledge and hidden treasures. Exactly what I feels happens at a greater degree when following it more precisely. I feel the great and hidden treasures which are spoken of are not of greater intellect but of spiritual intellect.
You have placed yourself above your Prophet through out this thread. You've said you know how to follow the Word of Wisdom more precisely, and you have judged your Prophet and found him lacking, he doesn't do the work necessary to guide the church properly. In your words he doesn't communicate with God on this issue nor do enough for the members of the church in regards to the Word of Wisdom. You on the other hand have the answers that the prophet is, unaware of or, too lazy to ask God about. You talk about the things in the WOW that are overlooked, but caffeine is not mentioned so you are going above and beyond the Prophet and the WOW. I can understand why you would do this seeing how you regard him as ineffectual and negligent as shown in your words below.
CSA wrote:I don't think, he is approaching God about what possible changes could be made to the Word of Wisdom
CSA wrote:I for one, think the LDS church is not doing enough in defining and interpreting the Word of Wisdom in terms that could be used in this day and age
I get what you are saying about feeling better if the inner vessel is in good working order, as far as living style is concerned. But I harken back to biblical stories of people with intense infirmities, no hope, terrible working conditions for their bodies, yet their faith in Christ was so strong he could feel it walking through crowds. My hypothesis is simply that spirituality cannot be measured by the inner vessel. By what we eat or drink. I took care of many patients during my nursing years who would have an actual doctor's order to give them up to four ounces of wine a half hour before a meal, to encourage the hunger. In most cases it worked, particularly with some aides patients. My brother in law, in the latter part of cancer right now, has no pain due to medicinal marijuana. He requires no intravenous meds, and his appetite has been the same that it always was. He has lost no weight, and enjoys his days. And his spirituality is strong, in place, ready for his imminent death. It's not for us, humans, to determine whether a perfect working body maintaining the WOW is in better spiritual shape than someone who does not maintain it.
hatersinmyward wrote:Caffeine is bad for you spiritually: Only if the caffeine makes it difficult to concentrate on spiritual matters.
Or if it keeps you awake, or if you have a physical condition such as heart irregularity.
What is “spiritual”? Demonstrate such an assertion is anything more than emotional response to various stimuli.
Within most of the discussion here, it is assumed that there is something to a claim regarding “spiritual.” There has been no articulation of what is meant by such a term. The assertion that “caffeine is bad…” has not been demonstrated when caffeine is consumed in moderation. Salt is not bad when consumed in moderation. Sugar is not bad when consumed in moderation. (If one is a diabetic, sugar is bad. That’s demonstrated by medical science. It may be bad even in moderation for diabetics.) We can define “sugar.”
What’s the definition of “spiritual”? Some vague, emotional feeling hardly qualifies.
café crema wrote:You have placed yourself above your Prophet through out this thread. You've said you know how to follow the Word of Wisdom more precisely, and you have judged your Prophet and found him lacking, he doesn't do the work necessary to guide the church properly. In your words he doesn't communicate with God on this issue nor do enough for the members of the church in regards to the Word of Wisdom. You on the other hand have the answers that the prophet is, unaware of or, too lazy to ask God about. You talk about the things in the WOW that are overlooked, but caffeine is not mentioned so you are going above and beyond the Prophet and the WOW. I can understand why you would do this seeing how you regard him as ineffectual and negligent as shown in your words below.
While I may be of the opinion that the Prophet could and should provide greater clarity in the Word of Wisdom, I am smart enough to realize that this is my own pet peeve which God or the Prophet will deal with on their own time. I have developed the opinion about caffeine over a long period of time throughout my service in the LDS church. When acting as Boy Scout leader I have seen a group of young scouts at camp keeping everyone up all night because a few of them brought caffeinated energy drinks. Later I see these same boys end up in various despicable circumstances as they approach adulthood. I have seen men I have been close with and who I have managed in working conditions so dependent upon caffeine to function and in my opinion not function very well. And those who choose to drink water over soda and those who seem to follow the Word of Wisdom more correctly, also are the ones who actually says a silent prayer over their meals when we have gone to lunch. These things remind me of the promises made in the Word of Wisdom and question what else besides caffeine might be avoided and what things can be added to help someone not only feel more spiritual but act more spiritual.