I Nephi

[_stemelbow]

I wonder how Stem knows it made for beautiful reformed Egyptian.

seriously? It was a joke, Themis.

Also, we know the evidence tells us that Joseph received the translation word for word.

I don't think its that easy.

This does not do well for the Book of Mormon so apologists invent other methods allowing for Joseph to put it into his own words, except for parts they need to be word for word(LOL).

I don't see the big fuss. We surely don't have any idea how the translation really occurred. The best we have is some hints of how the transcription--the writing of what Joseph Smith said--occurred. But even that isn't hte clearest. Was Joseph Smith reading it word for word or was that simply assumed?

If a translator knows a certain word meant something else back when it was first used then it does today, would they translate that word from back then into what it means today or what it meant back then?

interesting question (oh wait, not really).

[_Some Schmo]

Don't you people understand? The Book of Mormon is a jumbled mess because if god made it too good, you wouldn't need faith any more. It's written like a teenage C student's dictated mess to disguise it's rich divinity.

Geez... get with the faith program, would ya?

[_Nightlion]

Am I the only one that thinks that the first sentence in the Book of Mormon is awkward to the point of barely sounding like a sentence? It feels like it veers off track at least twice and doesn't ever quite recover.

Comments?

These words of Nephi are NOT Mormon's abridgment and you get a sense that Nephi was awkward in the placing of his words just like Moroni lamented. You can see from the phrasing that he is using glyphs that represent a thought. And also that the same glyph slightly tweaked is the same thought slighly tweaked.

Example:
"in the course of my days"
"in all my days"
"in my days"

All in the same sentence. Wow!
Tarski, you have helped prove the Book of Mormon true and faithful to its own account. Way to go man!

And a shout out to Chap for the great link. Very cool.

[_Nightlion]

I wonder how Stem knows it made for beautiful reformed Egyptian. Also, we know the evidence tells us that Joseph received the translation word for word. This does not do well for the Book of Mormon so apologists invent other methods allowing for Joseph to put it into his own words, except for parts they need to be word for word(LOL).

If a translator knows a certain word meant something else back when it was first used then it does today, would they translate that word from back then into what it means today or what it meant back then?

LOL, dude, you do NOT translate glyphs word for word. Think guy, think. And we all know Joseph Smith could not translate Reformed Egyptian. What he got was in fact a translation but not by way of him translating. Does that make sense to you? See, Joseph Smith was the translator but he did not do the translation. God did. He was a facilitator of God's translation by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost. And if it was truly awkwardly written as the account so states and the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Truth and cannot lie, it MUST come out awkwardly.

Awkward in awkward out. That has to be true or the Holy Ghost would be rewriting and therefore NOT representing the truth of the Gold Plates. Get it? The book gets better written (eta:sorry lol) when the transcriber, Mormon, who has more expertise makes an abridgment in his own words. And his son, who does not have as much experience complains.

This fact is yet another proof of its authenticity. Joseph kept aloft all the internal balls that were always in the air throughout the book and in context without dropping them. Liars cannot do that.

[_Themis]

I don't think its that easy.

Actually it is simply becuase that is the evidence we have. It is the apologists who have to invent something else to try and crawl around the many problems in the Book of Mormon.

I don't see the big fuss. We surely don't have any idea how the translation really occurred.

Sure we do. Why don't you read up on it. We have witness statement from various sources.

The best we have is some hints of how the transcription--the writing of what Joseph Smith said--occurred. But even that isn't hte clearest. Was Joseph Smith reading it word for word or was that simply assumed?

We don't have to have what Joseph said, although it would help. We do have very specific witness statements that are very clear. I find it unlikely that they didn't make inquires to Joseph about it. How did they come up with the idea that the words would appear on his stone. Assumptions? LOL

interesting question (oh wait, not really).

Not to you, but then I suspect it went over your head. :) Hope things are well with you.

[_Themis]

LOL, dude, you do NOT translate glyphs word for word. Think guy, think.

We also don't translate other languages very well word for word. Try using Google translator to find out.

And we all know Joseph Smith could not translate Reformed Egyptian. What he got was in fact a translation but not by way of him translating.

Now you are getting it. The evidence also tells us Joseph was getting his translation from God word for word, not that God was translating from one language to another word for word. I think my last question which was not entirely about the Issue here is what may be confusing people.

Does that make sense to you? See, Joseph Smith was the translator but he did not do the translation. God did.

That would mean that Joseph was not the translator because God did the translating. Does that make sense?

He was a facilitator of God's translation by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost. And if it was truly awkwardly written as the account so states and the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Truth and cannot lie, it MUST come out awkwardly.

To much evdience about the translating and the Book of Mormon itself tell us that God was not involved, but it was a 19th century production. Unlike View of the Hebrews they were trying to pull it off as non-fiction.

Awkward in awkward out. That has to be true or the Holy Ghost would be rewriting and therefore NOT representing the truth of the Gold Plates. Get it? The book gets better written (eta:sorry lol) when the transcriber, Mormon, who has more expertise makes an abridgment in his own words. And his son, who does not have as much experience complains.

This goes to my question I posed about a translator trying to accurately translate a document into another language, but somehow apologists don't like to think God would do some of the same rational decision in order to provide as accurate a translation as possible, and lets face it, God knowing all would be able to give a very accurate translation.

This fact is yet another proof of its authenticity. Joseph kept aloft all the internal balls that were always in the air throughout the book and in context without dropping them. Liars cannot do that.

Actually he didn't, which is why there were some changes needed in later editions. by the way liars can do some amazing things if there good at it.