'their creeds were an abomination in his sight'

[_madeleine]

How about the Catholic Church mandate that priest be celibate so the Church could control property under the local parishes control?

wut? Celibacy leads to property control?

[_msnobody]

IIUC, according to Don Bradley's The "Grand Fundamental Principles" of Mormonism, on July 9, 1843, Joseph Smith addressed his listeners and according to this paper Joseph Smith is said to have stated, "....we do not differ so far in our religious views.” He declared the Saints’ faith ready to receive the truths of all others: “One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from where it may.” IIUC, he was speaking of Presbyterians, Baptist, or any other denomination.

My question is how much time had lapsed between the time Joseph Smith is said to have stated, "all their creeds were an abomination in his sight, 19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” and July 9, 1843 when Joseph Smith is said to have stated, “....we do not differ so far in our religious views.” He declared the Saints’ faith ready to receive the truths of all others: “One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from where it may.”

Link to Don Bradley's The "Grand Fundamental Principles" of Mormonism http://www.sunstonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/141-32-41.pdf

[_bcspace]

How about the Catholic Church mandate that priest be celibate so the Church could control property under the local parishes control?

Here's what really happened:

A young priest went to work in an Abbey and his first job was to copy the ancient scriptures of the Bible by hand. One day he noticed a problem. All the priests, who were doing the same thing, were making copies from other copies and he went to the Abbot and told him about it.
" Father..." The young priest explained, "If there was just one mistake made then it's been repeated over and over again!"

The Abbot thanked the priest for noticing the problem and disappeared. Hours later, when no one had seen him all day, the worried priest went searching and finally found him sobbing over the original text, which had been locked away in the Monasteries safe for centuries.

" We forgot the "R"!" He kept saying, over and over.

The young priest was somewhat taken aback at his distress and said;
"Father, what's wrong?"
Tearfully, the old Abbot looked up and said;

"Celebrate......the word was celebrate"

[_bcspace]

My question is how much time had lapsed between the time Joseph Smith said

Doesn't matter as the concepts are not mutually exclusive. Consider: Satan in the garden said that by eating the fruit, they would not die but would become as the gods knowing good and evil. Satan was all wrong. His creed was an abomination, yet it contained an element of truth; that they would become as the gods knowing good and evil.

[_msnobody]

My question is how much time had lapsed between the time Joseph Smith said

Doesn't matter as the concepts are not mutually exclusive. Consider: Satan in the garden said that by eating the fruit, they would not die but would become as the gods knowing good and evil. Satan was all wrong. His creed was an abomination, yet it contained an element of truth; that they would become as the gods knowing good and evil.

Buzzer Wrong answer, but thanks for playing. << in light heartedness, by the way.

Is the date 1820? Now that I read other posts, it seems this may be the date.

[_hugh jass]

This also comes off more as a Joseph Smith recounting and summation of what was said rather than a word for word quotation. Are these words recorded elsewhere? Do we really think Joseph just memorized them until he decided to write them down 18 years later?

Yep, Joseph Smith Jr ACTUALLY Talks to GOD AND Jesus, yet does he run home and tell his mother? NO

Does he write it down right afterwards? NO silly he was a dumbass farm boy.

When he finally writes it down 11 years later, is it Jesus and God? NO

OK OK, when he finally writes it down 18 years later, does he call God and Jesus by name? NO only "personages".

In FACT, never once does he address them as God or Jesus in his entire First Vision® account.

Sorry, but in my opinion the First Vision® is nothing more than a steaming pile of Bovine Excrement®.

[_MsJack]

Here's what really happened:

A young priest went to work in an Abbey and his first job was to copy the ancient scriptures of the Bible by hand. One day he noticed a problem. All the priests, who were doing the same thing, were making copies from other copies and he went to the Abbot and told him about it.
" Father..." The young priest explained, "If there was just one mistake made then it's been repeated over and over again!"

The Abbot thanked the priest for noticing the problem and disappeared. Hours later, when no one had seen him all day, the worried priest went searching and finally found him sobbing over the original text, which had been locked away in the Monasteries safe for centuries.

" We forgot the "R"!" He kept saying, over and over.

The young priest was somewhat taken aback at his distress and said;
"Father, what's wrong?"
Tearfully, the old Abbot looked up and said;

"Celebrate......the word was celebrate"

Maybe it's the classicist snob in me, but I always thought that was a dumb joke. Caelibatus and celebrare/celebratus don't sound nearly so similar in Latin as they do in English. Plus how would someone mix up a verb and an adjective like that?

Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled programming . . .

[_stemelbow]

Well this is canonized LDS scripture. Are you saying we cannot rely on what he said?

of course I didn't say anything of the sort. But something to think about. This was 18 years after it happened. Precise wording might be a problem. then again, it might be exactly what was said to him.

[_Jason Bourne]

Do you believe all current sects but Mormonism are wrong?

Used to. Not any more.

Are there any that are more right than another?

I do not know. Each person has to decide. I think if there is a God that religions come to us to try to understand Him and that different ones will reach and touch humans in varying ways. What works for me might not work for you. Mormonism works for me now. Maybe it won't later. Protestantism works for Hoops, Islam works for others.

If not, then the contradictions are really of no consequence I suppose...

Correct.

Are there any that are more wrong than right? How would you know?

That is the point. Nobody really can know unless this God tells them face to face. Some claim He has. But I find trusting most of them hard. So God tells most of us face to face we are left to plod through it on out own. I hardly think God will fault us if we do not get it right since the path ways are not really laid down very clearly.

Does it matter?

Regards,

[_stemelbow]

Stem seems willing to sacrifice any scripture or any doctrine if it furthers his need to believe in the overall truthfulness of the organization. I'm not sure how that works, but that seems to be his M.O.

Oh pretty please. Stating the facts here, while reasonably considering the consequences of those facts is not sacrificing anything. You sure like to paint it in dramatics in hopes to declare an LDS disengenuous or something. I mention it because i think its a reasonable thing to consider, don't you? do you think Joseph Smith memorized the words given to him 18 years previous, without ever writing it down, and recorded it perfectly? That seems unreasonable if you ask me.