Fanny Alger

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_why me
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Re: Fanny Alger

Post by _why me »

George Miller wrote:Yes there is a large amount of evidence, including the testimony of her family members and close acquaintances that she was married to Joseph.


Not to mention the fact that fanny's parents and brother were rather happy that fanny and joseph were sealed together. I remember reading that they wore this honor proudly when fanny's parents lived in Utah
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_sock puppet
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Re: Fanny Alger

Post by _sock puppet »

George, could you address the timing of the Alger relationship and the issuance of the Article on Marriage?
_Blixa
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Re: Fanny Alger

Post by _Blixa »

sock puppet wrote:George, could you address the timing of the Alger relationship and the issuance of the Article on Marriage?


Read the linked article which is what George is discussing. Don't make him do your homework for you!
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_DarkHelmet
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Re: Fanny Alger

Post by _DarkHelmet »

why me wrote:To my knowledge, fanny never said a negative word about Joseph Smith


Maybe the sex was really good. Why would she complain?

and it seems that her husband did not mind.


Did her husband know about her past sex life? Even if he did, it was in the past. It may have bothered him that he didn't marry a virgin, but maybe he got over it.
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_George Miller
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Re: Fanny Alger

Post by _George Miller »

sock puppet wrote:George, could you address the timing of the Alger relationship and the issuance of the Article on Marriage?

I will be happy to summarize Don's argument. One of the unanswered questions in the Alger case is when the relationship began. Sadly, the data here is sparse and highly contradictory, however, the data surrounding when it ended is a bit more rigorous and detailed. Earlier historians suggest that the Alger relationship ended in 1835, and that the Article on Marriage (AoM) was prepared and voted on in Joseph Smith's absence in August of 1835 in response Joseph Smith polgamous relationship with Fanny. They surmised this based on the following wording in the AoM.

Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again.


In addition the early dating to 1835 is based on Benjamin F. Johnson's much later recollection of the timing and an entry in Joseph Smith's diary saying he dismissed some borders on October 17, 1835. The problem is that recent research provides strong evidence that the border dismissed from the house was not Fanny, but instead workers at the printing establishment maintained by the saints. Benjamin F. Johnson's reminiscence is extremely late and is contradicted by others testimony. The above interpretation of AoM, while interesting, is not the only interpretation. According to other research, there are likely other cases of polygamy in Kirtland prior to 1835 to which AoM is likely referring. Additionally, evidence exists (and for what it's worth for which my own Mormon-Masonic research provides substantive confirmatory evidence) that a polygamy revelation was received in 1831 as reported by multiple people presumably in the know. Thus AoM could also be responding to this revelation, or rumors thereto, instead of to a Joseph-Fanny relationship.

Don then marshalls a substantial amount of evidence in favor of mid to late 1836 discovery of the Joseph-Fanny relationship. Generally, the evidence includes (1) the state of the Oliver Cowdery-Joseph relationship, (2) the testimony of friendly and unfriendly witnesses, (3) the timing of Fanny's removal from Kirtland and subsequent marriage to Solomon Custer, (4) the timing of the church court, (5) and the timing and content of the gossip and hubbub surrounding the discovery of the relationship. For brevity's sake I will refrain here from discussing the 30ish pages of Don's detailed analysis.

The main takeaway message is that AoM is likely not responding to a polygamous relationship between Joseph and Fanny, and that the relationship was likely being consummated in mid to late 1836. I find this more likely, as I doubt Joseph could have carried on this charade in Emma's face, and in Emma's home, for a year and a half without Emma and other church members, like Oliver Cowdery, raising an eyebrow and a voice of complaint.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:06 pm, edited 6 times in total.
_Blixa
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Re: Fanny Alger

Post by _Blixa »

Damn you, George! I've been trying to get Sock to read something on his own!
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_George Miller
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Re: Fanny Alger

Post by _George Miller »

Blixa wrote:Damn you, George! I've been trying to get Sock to read something on his own!

Sorry Blixa - I was actually going to amend my last post to chide him a bit and tell him to read a book. Really the article is fabulous, and Don's treatment of the subject is easy to follow and an enjoyable read. My summary does not do it justice, and if you really want to make an informed appraisal of the situation you NEED to read the article.
_Blixa
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Re: Fanny Alger

Post by _Blixa »

George Miller wrote:
Blixa wrote:Damn you, George! I've been trying to get Sock to read something on his own!

Sorry Blixa - I was actually going to amend my last post to chide him a bit and tell him to read a book. Really the article is fabulous, and Don's treatment of the subject is easy to follow an enjoyable read. My summary does not do it justice, and if you really want to make an informed appraisal of the situation you NEED to read the article.


Yep. It is a very good read. There are a lot of very interesting things to be found within.

Now, as for you! You need to be writing round the clock so we can enjoy your fabulous work! Get back to it!
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_George Miller
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Re: Fanny Alger

Post by _George Miller »

Blixa wrote:Now, as for you! You need to be writing round the clock so we can enjoy your fabulous work! Get back to it!

I don't suppose you mean the paper I just wrote and submitted to Molecular Cell on Atg8 regulation. :-)

for what it's worth I have been doing some heavy grunt work on the organization on the first Book of Abraham paper the last couple of weeks. My heavens what have I gotten myself into with this project. Zub zool oan, Lish zi ho e oop iota, Beth ka, Beth ku ..... I feel like I am at a Star Trek convention surrounded by a bunch of Bat'leth swinging Klingon speaking Trekkies, or perhaps more apropos at a Star Gate convention.
_Pollypinks
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Re: Fanny Alger

Post by _Pollypinks »

My thoughts were that Fanny was considered the first plural, or, spiritual wife of Joseph Smith. Even though they were caught bonking in the barn, and Emma threw her out. Emma proceded to throw out other women that Joseph Smith was found to be bonking in the house, right under her nose. And yes, Fanny did indeed go on to marry someone legitimately. But for all the horniness we accuse Joseph Smith of, have any of you ever looked at some of those pictures of the women??? I think one was toothless.
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