Parley P. Pratt -- secret conspirator with Rigdon?

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_Uncle Dale
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Parley P. Pratt -- secret conspirator with Rigdon?

Post by _Uncle Dale »

One of the unexplored claims of the early critics of Mormonism
is that Parley P. Pratt met and secretly conspired with Elder
Sidney Rigdon, in Ohio during the 1820s, to design the religion.

If course, in order to show that Parley could have met and
become acquainted with Rigdon, we first of all need to know
when Parley first traveled to Ohio and where he went there.

One clue may be offered in the fact that Parley had two brothers
(Nelson and William) reportedly living in northern Ohio by 1827.
William is said to have lived about ten miles away from Rigdon --
and thus may have been the William Pratt who lived in Chester
twp., Geauga Co., Ohio, about half-way between Kirtland and
Rigdon's earlier residence in Bainbridge, twp.

Image


Nelson Edmund Pratt (1815 – 1889)

In 1827, Nelson Pratt and two brothers, Parley P. and Orson (afterward prominently connected with Mormonism),
came from Columbia county, New York, and located in Ahmerst, Lorain county. After two years, Nelson settled
in Peru township, this county. In 1835 or ’36, he became a resident of Norwich township, locating at, or
near where is now Havana village. In the last named year, he married Finnette, daughter of Frederick Delano,
one of the pioneers. From this marriage one child, a son, was born, this was Edwin D., who married Elizabeth
Slyer, and lives on lot thirty-four. Nelson Pratt has been three times married, as follows: Azubah Spalding,
Marietta Ensign, and Mrs. Mary Ann Felton who died in 1872. Two children, daughters, were born of the second
marriage.

History of the Firelands, Comprising Huron and Erie Counties, Ohio, 1879, 416



Givins and Grow have a new book out on Pratt's life, and Grow himself
has contributed a couple of chapters to a second new book on the topic.

Can anybody contribute any new facts to this obscure research?

Uncle Dale
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_just me
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Re: Parley P. Pratt -- secret conspirator with Rigdon?

Post by _just me »

Woah. Who was Azubah Spalding? Relative of Solomon Spalding?
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
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_Uncle Dale
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Re: Parley P. Pratt -- secret conspirator with Rigdon?

Post by _Uncle Dale »

just me wrote:Woah. Who was Azubah Spalding? Relative of Solomon Spalding?



A very distant one -- both were descended from a guy who lived
in the 1600s.

A closer connection would have been Dr. Solomon Spalding, who
lived near Parley's old cabin in Russia twp., Lorain Co., Ohio a
few years after Parley moved away to Kirtland.

UD
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_stemelbow
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Re: Parley P. Pratt -- secret conspirator with Rigdon?

Post by _stemelbow »

These were some clever fellas--Pratt and Rigdon. They consipred to create a religion. Rigdon stuck around Ohio gaining converts to a different religion then the one he must have previously created with Pratt. Pratt left to find a puppet to install in place so their designs wouldn't be uncovered, and the blame would be put on this stooge. A few years later, the followers of this new religion would happen upon Rigdon and company, thus adding substantially to the conversion pool.

And this did this because...
Love ya tons,
Stem


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Re: Parley P. Pratt -- secret conspirator with Rigdon?

Post by _just me »

UD, what records have you already looked at for this? Or are you just beginning your research on it?
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
_Uncle Dale
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Re: Parley P. Pratt -- secret conspirator with Rigdon?

Post by _Uncle Dale »

stemelbow wrote:These were some clever fellas--Pratt and Rigdon. They consipred to create a religion. Rigdon stuck around Ohio gaining converts to a different religion then the one he must have previously created with Pratt. Pratt left to find a puppet to install in place so their designs wouldn't be uncovered, and the blame would be put on this stooge. A few years later, the followers of this new religion would happen upon Rigdon and company, thus adding substantially to the conversion pool.

And this did this because...



My best guess?

Because they truly believed in the Bible, but felt it had become corrupted
and that all contemporary manifestations of Christianity were terribly and
even demonically flawed abominations.

Also, that people had to be led back to Christ, in order to bring on the
expected imminent Millennium, and that even dishonest, secretive methods
could be developed into good, pure and truthful results in such a divine task.

....

Or -- perhaps they were just the sort of power-hungry hypocrites that
Sidney Rigdon stood condemned of being, at his 1844 excommunication
trial at Nauvoo; when Pratt's hostile testimony sealed the doom of that
latter day "false prophet" and faux pious conspirator against "The Twelve."

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_Uncle Dale
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Re: Parley P. Pratt -- secret conspirator with Rigdon?

Post by _Uncle Dale »

just me wrote:UD, what records have you already looked at for this? Or are you just beginning your research on it?


Not much, I'm afraid.

The 1840 Ohio census shows a William Pratt living in Chester,
just south of Kirtland. That may have been Parley's brother,
but by then most of the loyal Mormons had moved to Illinois.

The 1820s and 1830s Geauga County, Ohio annual property tax
records should be consulted. They show Sidney Rigdon, first in
Bainbridge township and later in Mentor, next to Kirtland. If he
lived in close proximity to any of Parley's family or associates,
those records may show the geographical connection.

Anybody have access to Armstrong's new "Parley P. Pratt and the
Making of Mormonism" book -- with Elder Grow's chapter on
the Pratts in Ohio?

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_stemelbow
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Re: Parley P. Pratt -- secret conspirator with Rigdon?

Post by _stemelbow »

Uncle Dale wrote:My best guess?

Because they truly believed in the Bible, but felt it had become corrupted
and that all contemporary manifestations of Christianity were terribly and
even demonically flawed abominations.

Also, that people had to be led back to Christ, in order to bring on the
expected imminent Millennium, and that even dishonest, secretive methods
could be developed into good, pure and truthful results in such a divine task.


So then why would Rigdon preach in Ohio something other than their supposed manufactured belief system? Your best guess seems to suggest they actually believed they were doing something good for Christ. I don't know if that works though. And why would they believe the Bible if they felt it had been corrupted? What's to believe if it had been corrupted? And what do you make of Joseph Smith' story pre-1827 related to this? Would he have been in on before Rigdon and Pratt met somehow?


....

Or -- perhaps they were just the sort of power-hungry hypocrites that
Sidney Rigdon stood condemned of being, at his 1844 excommunication
trial at Nauvoo; when Pratt's hostile testimony sealed the doom of that
latter day "false prophet" and faux pious conspirator against "The Twelve."

UD


So they were power hungry hypocrites who instead of seeking the recognition gave it to some other guy? So Pratt was a power-hungry hypocrite, too, because you accused Rigdon of being one some 17 years after they supposedly began conspiring?

Alright. Sounds delicious at least.
Love ya tons,
Stem


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_just me
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Re: Parley P. Pratt -- secret conspirator with Rigdon?

Post by _just me »

So, Parley had a brother William as well as a cousin William Pratt. That makes things fun.

Anyway, I do not have access to that new book. I do have PPP's autobiography.

I'll see what records I can find to poke around at.

According to his autobiography he first headed west ending up 30 miles west of Cleveland, Ohio in October 1826. Sounds like he was in Ohio in November of that year. He wintered there. (page 27-28)
Sorry if this is something you already know.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
_Uncle Dale
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Re: Parley P. Pratt -- secret conspirator with Rigdon?

Post by _Uncle Dale »

stemelbow wrote:...

So then why would Rigdon preach in Ohio something other than their supposed manufactured belief system?


Again, my best guess is that he felt he was preparing his
followers for the reception of new scriptures which would
inform them of how to practice true, authoritative religion,
and thus prepare for the expected Millennium.

As a minister to Alexander Campbell's "Reformed Baptists"
in northern Ohio, Rigdon was fostering and developing several
"restorationist" congregations, many of the members of which
eventually became Mormons. But according to their beliefs
in 1827-30, they could only accept additional/new religious
tenets if those doctrines could be found in holy scripture.

Pratt called Rigdon's followers "Rigdonites" -- and described
them as restorationists who had not yet found the true
divine authority on earth -- the authority necessary in order
to lay on hands and transmit the Holy Ghost. Campbell's
followers did administer the Holy Ghost shortly after baptism,
but not with a special claim to authority and not with the
expectation that the confirmed recipient would then be
empowered with spiritual gifts, the ministering of angels, etc.


Your best guess seems to suggest they actually believed they were doing something
good for Christ. I don't know if that works though.


There are several passages in the Book of Mormon in which it is
stated that any actions which bring a person to Christ are good
and holy. The door appears to be left open to deception. Nephi
poses as Laban for a holy cause -- other Nephite prophets are
engaged in various sorts of deception or stratagems, in order
that their people and religion will prevail and spread.

People like Sidney Rigdon felt that the Christian Bible had become
corrupted by devilish deception in the past -- the fulness of the
gospel had been erased from the Bible by priestly deception. I
suppose he felt that this fulness could also be restored by deception.

And why would they believe the Bible if they felt it had been corrupted?


If you look back at the history of those times, you'll see various
attempts by Christian reformers to remedy that problem. For example,
Alexander Campbell published a new Bible in 1822, in which he claimed
to offer a truer translation of the original scriptural teachings on
such things as proper baptism, the nature of angels, etc.

There were many Christians, and would-be-Christians, who believed
the basic origin and intent of the Bible, but who also felt it had not
been translated properly -- or that it had been added to, such as in
the case of Roman Catholics inserting several apocryphal books.

What's to believe if it had been corrupted?


The scholars among the Christians of those days argued over small
but seemingly significant differences in translations. These controversies
seeped down to the average members as being a controversy over
how much to trust any particular Bible edition. But, to make matters
worse, the Bible itself mentions (and quotes from) various books that
are not in the canon. For example, in the 1820s excerpts from the
"lost" Book of Enoch began appearing in various publications, and one
full edition of the volume was eventually published. Later the Book of
Jashur was translated from Hebrew into English, sounding very much
like additional scripture.

While perhaps 90% of American Christians were content to accept
and use the traditional KJV Bible, there was, in the 1820s, a growing
number of religionists who viewed the Bible as incomplete, corrupt, or
both. Various sects condemned all of contemporary Christianity as
being corrupt -- and even an abomination. The Quakers and Shakers
were quietly hostile to the doctrines and authority of the religion.
Reformers such as Barton Stone and Elias Smith advocated severe
reforms. Prophets such as Jacob Cochran and Abel Sarjent issued new
revelations and new interpretations of scriptural doctrines.

And what do you make of Joseph Smith' story pre-1827 related to this?


My best guess is that Luman Walters instilled in Smith the desire to
find and make use of a supernatural text -- a "golden Bible" from
which Smith and his family could communicate vast stores of secret
lore, hidden up from the foundation of the world. But the Smiths had
no such text.


Image

At the same time, what Parley P. Pratt called the "Rigdonites" were
evolving away from Campbellism and expecting "a new religion and
a new Bible." The sorts of doctrinal changes that Rigdon's Ohio
followers came to accept when they converted to Mormonism were
only the tenets they could read from pages of scripture. That was
thir unchanging belief -- that religion could only be "restored" or
improved by consulting Divine, scriptural instructions.

Rigdon needed new scriptures, if he wished to evolve his Campbellite
followers into pure "Rigdonites." His 1824 experiment in publishing
the "Third Epistle of Peter" in Pittsburgh, had given him some small
experience in writing quasi-scriptural sounding passages, but that
short text could never provide the foundation for an entire
restoration of "the ancient order of things." Rigdon would have to
somehow come up with a much better and more complete new text.

Image
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/1824Scot.htm#page36a


And Smith was still looking for just such a text as Rigdon finally
accepted, in public, in Mentor, Ohio, in November of 1830.

I say that the possible coincidence is worth researching. Perhaps
most people will say it is a waste of time. But, with witnesses saying
that the Book of Mormon was written in Rigdon's cabin in 1826-27,
and that Joseph Smith came to visit and consult with Rigdon at that
very time period, I wish to study the claims more closely.

Or --- I could just go watch some movies and forget the whole thing.


Would he have been in on before Rigdon and Pratt met somehow?


A few early writers claimed that it was Pratt, in his role as a traveling
peddler in the 1820s, who introduced Smith and Rigdon. We do know
that Pratt lived very near Joseph Smith prior to his moving to Ohio in
the mid-1820s -- and that Pratt returned to practically the same place
where he had previously lived in New York, just before he met Hyrum.

So -- would Joseph Smith, Jr. have needed to know Sidney Rigdon
before (or contemporary with) Pratt's knowing Rigdon? I don't know.

So they were power hungry hypocrites who instead of seeking the recognition gave it to some other guy?


By 1844 Rigdon was no longer trying to give "recognition gave to some other guy" -- he was openly
calling Smith a fallen prophet and announcing himself as the Prophet Sidney, head of the Church.
But Rigdon failed in his post-Nauvoo splinter group, and fell back upon his earlier belief that a true
restoration of biblical religion required the joint-operation of two men -- a modern Aaron and a
modern Moses. It seems that Sidney could inspire the members, but he lacked the charisma needed
in order to hold a church together. So, he lived out the last years of his life acknowledging Smith
as having filled the prophetic office of "seer;" but he (Rigdon) still had not brought together the
"seer" and "spokesman" mentioned in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine & Covenants. He failed
to run a "one man show" and he failed in preserving a latter day "two man show."

So Pratt was a power-hungry hypocrite, too, because you accused Rigdon of being one some 17 years after they supposedly began conspiring?

all right. Sounds delicious at least.


Various people have differing views on Pratt's apostolic morality. Mine are
not very complimentary -- but I'm happy to learn any new facts which
serve to firmly establish him as an honest, sincere "special witness" for
Jesus Christ.

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
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