just me wrote:Hey, thanks for your response. I think I better understand your position.
Could you perhaps elaborate on the suffering part? I'll tell you what I am thinking and maybe you could share your thoughts based on that.
According to LDS doctrine drinking coffee is a sin. A sin that will keep you out of the temple, therefore it could be reasoned, out of the CK.
Bad reasoning. One could definitely be found in the CK and have never entered the temple in this mortal sojourn.
If a member drinks coffee they will likely feel guilty and bad about it because they have been conditioned to feel it is a sin from a very young age.
That's an agenda drive way to put it, no? Why not just admit that its the way the Mormon believes rather than this "conditioned to feel" stuff?
They will, in your use of the word, suffer for that drink of coffee. Let's say they repent, tell their bishop, never do it again and at some point feel relieved of their guilt and anguish over the sin.
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Another person who has heard of the WoW but does not believe it to be a sin to drink coffee drink it every day. They love it. They feel great about drinking coffee. They drink it til the day they die. They never felt any guilt, anguish nor did they suffer at all for that "sin."
What kind of suffering can person #2 look forward to in the afterlife?
Probably nothing different than person 1. Maybe a simple bit of remorse.
What it looks like to me is that religion tells humans to feel like s*** for doing certain things (or even thinking certain things) and then gives them a special cure. The religion creates the problem and then offers an antedote.
I can see how one will see it that way. But, as it is, (coffee is a bad example of this) I'd say we're all ingrained to feel guilt for at least some sins. Murdering causes some non-bleivers some suffering in terms of remorse for instance. .
Nobody would feel guilty or suffer because they masturbate if religion didn't tell them to feel that way to begin with.
How would you know? If there be a God and He disapproves of masturbatin’ then He very well can cause someone to feel guilt for doing it. You wouldn’t know that.
Nobody would feel guilty or bad for drinking coffee without the LDS church telling them to.
This is a better example to your point. But if ya think people won’t feel remorse and thence suffer for whatever they do, you’re foolin’ yourself. We obviously feel remorse for our deeds often. There’s something to that.
There are all these normal human things that nobody suffers for doing until religion come up and tells them they should.
So. that doesn’t mean they won’t suffer because they threw rocks at a neighbor’s house breaking it, or killing the neighbor’s dog and eating it, or throwing brand new born babies off the bridge.
The things that normal, healthy humans do suffer and feel bad about doing doesn't really change by accepting the atonement. If you do something really s****y you are going to suffer for it no matter your religious preference.
Well that’s not necessarily true. It seems some people don’t feel bad for burning down their neighbor’s house, or scratching their car, or pooping on their doorstep.
So, what really does the atonement help with? I guess we have to say the afterlife of which we have no proof. Because it seems pretty impotent in this life.
I’ve already described how it benefits in this life, in my earlier response to you.
To be fair, I will say that there is a placebo effect with accepting Christ. We can cause ourselves to feel peace and love and all kinds of things by reading beautiful myths and stories....listening to certain music. But, again, non-believers can do it just as well as believers.
That’s kinda the point too. The atonement is for all, even non-bleievers. They get to have hope, without realizing the source, because of the atonement. They get to participate in the ultimate purpose of the atonement of developing love and unified relationships because of the atonement, they just don’t realize that. They don’t feel the hope, probably, and don’t recognize that good comes from Christ.