Envy of Non-Members

[_Darth J]

I freely admit; blissful ignorance is sometimes a tempting thought. But I think we often forget about the consequences when under such temptation.

If you're naughty, Santa won't bring you any presents on Christmas.

[_The Mighty Builder]

What you should really be envious of is that you were not Valiant enough in the Pre-Existance to merit being born in a Third World country with a High Infant Mortality Rate. Had you been such a Valiant person, you would have been blessed and guaranteed a place in Mormondom's Celestial Kingdom.

But no, its obvious that you were just slightly better than a "less than Valiant" person and could have as easily been born with the "Curse of Cain".

See D&C 137: 10 And I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven.

[_just me]

I would sometimes think how unfair it was that someone could be baptized right before they died and get to the CK while I had to strive for perfection my entire life. I was envious of that. I never would have wanted to actually be a non-member because I was taught I was super lucky to have the gospel.

So, my initial response was to pray to be perfect and to try really effing hard to be perfect. Oh, and feel like crap most of the time.

Now I envy non-members because I want to be one.

[_jon]

When you consider it, the purpose of Plan of Salvation is much easier to achieve if you don't join the Church until the next life. That's how bad the Plan is - which makes it hard to believe that God designed it.

[_LDSToronto]

Baptism unto damnation, that's what I call it.

Forget for a moment the various historical problems; the organization of heaven and it's various entry requirements is, arguably, one of the top doctrinal problems found in LDS theology. I've thought the exact same way - I was baptised at 21, and after a few years began to realise that I should have waited till someone did my temple work by proxy because then I could have lived a life unlimited and gained celestial glory. Instead, I found myself shackled at a young age with all kinds of rules to live by lest I lose my reward and face eternal damnation.

Hardly a fair deal, but hey, someone's gotta pay the bills, may as well be me (and Just Me, and Buffalo, and stemelbow, and Pahoran).

I've shared these feelings in various lessons over the years, and no one has a satisfactory explanation. Oh, sure, saints whip out the parable of the labourers, but that seems a perfunctory gesture. In fact, I've said publicly that missionaries should knock doors, and share a brief message:

"Don't get baptised - we'll do it for you when you are dead and you'll make it all the way to the highest glory! Just give us your information now, have someone call this number when you kick the bucket, and we'll get you fixed up lickity-split!"

I could go on for a few pages about the logical issues found with a three-tiered heaven, a limited hell, and a strict set of entrance conditions. Suffice it to say, I've determined an unlimited lifestyle suits me better.

H.

[Guest]

When you consider it, the purpose of Plan of Salvation is much easier to achieve if you don't join the Church until the next life. That's how bad the Plan is - which makes it hard to believe that God designed it.

And as proof of that see D&C 137 : 5 - 9

5 I saw Father Adam and Abraham; and my father and my mother; my brother Alvin, that has long since slept;

6 And marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins.

7 Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;

8 Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;

9 For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.

So according to Joe its better not to have heard than heard

[_Gordon]

It's not 'envy' I feel, but a feeling a getting gypped. There are those that can/will do whatever the hell they want in this life, and when they're dead: "hey, sure, I'll accept the Gospel" and welcome to the CK...meanwhile, if I do the same things in this life, it's off to the lesser kingdoms I go!

[_ajax18]

It's not 'envy' I feel, but a feeling a getting gypped.

Kudos for spelling gypped properly. Too many people don't realize the origin of the word is gypsy.

[_Gordon]

Kudos for spelling gypped properly. Too many people don't realize the origin of the word is gypsy.

Yeah, it's really a racial slur, but hey, I don't think there are too many gypsies on this board.

[_Themis]

Nah...I didn't feel that way. I was just sad, at times, that I didn't get to hump when I was a teenager.

Stem gets right to the point. It is mostly about the sex. LDST puts it well by describing it as limited, which many members do feel. Lets face it, most want sex, and lots of it. I remember a joke that was not really that good, but kinda describes how people in religions like LDS may feel.

What happens at a party when the booze arrives?

All the LDS people put their clothes back on and leave.

I certainly envied non-lds friends. They could have guilt free sex, while I believed I would be severely punished by God if I had sex. It doesn't help when they keep guilt tripping the youth about it, and saying the only worse thing you can do is to murder someone.

Now Joseph knew what he was doing with his desire to have many women. I think it was wrong how he went about it, but he just had the same feelings most here do, and had the position to go about it and make it so he and a select group of men could get some to.