Non Dare Call It Indoctrination

[_Nightlion]

The Spirit of the Lord will show you the way. Live according to the promptings of the Holy Ghost. The spirit of revelation is a constant source of comfort and guidance. Follow the Spirit. Keep the Spirit. Do not offend the Spirit. Keep the commandments and be assured that the Spirit will not forsake you in your time of need.

Because the LDS assume immediately that all members have the Spirit and never competently teach people how to move from the natural man who is an enemy of God to a Saint who DOES own the gift and power of the Holy Ghost, they are failing to administer the REAL gospel and are simply indoctrinating cult-think mentality that warrants everybody the arrogance of owning what they do not have.

With the LDS is is a solemn and sober Spirit because their pride lifts them up above the common rabble of exuberant, glory, glory, glory indoctrination of the EV cults. But it is the same spirit of Protestantism. LDS is yet a church of the European Protestant culture. They sing like them. They preach with more feigned humility but still very much like them. And they indoctrinate people with the assumed right to consider all their best thoughts are washed in the love of God and the earnest of the Spirit. They both repeat the same mantra to reinforce that the people HAVE the Spirit.

Those who really do have the gift and power of the Holy Ghost are taught of God for heaven's sake and need not to have any man tell them better. That the people NEED to hear this and are inspired and lifted up to have such awesome validation heaped up upon them is a defining 'tell' that all is not well.

This is an abomination to the Lord who requires that you seek for the love of God to be put into your heart offering a constant yearning to circumcise the foreskin of your heart to come unto him with a broken heart and a contrite spirit where you surrender the natural man who seeks his own best interests in all things, (including religion) to take the name of Christ upon them with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy, willing to lose all to answer the ends of their faith to obtain the REAL and actual love of God in their hearts.

[_Turkey]

Hi Nightlion,

Out of curiosity, do you think Brigham Young was a true prophet of the Lord. If so, at what point did the prophetic succession fail in your opinion. Or - since I expect you might say it hasn't failed - at what point did the LDS church fail to appoint the true prophet?

[_Nightlion]

Hi Nightlion,

Out of curiosity, do you think Brigham Young was a true prophet of the Lord. If so, at what point did the prophetic succession fail in your opinion. Or - since I expect you might say it hasn't failed - at what point did the LDS church fail to appoint the true prophet?

I see Brigham Young as a true saint but failed apostle and prophet. So it failed from the beginning. That holds with all LDS leadership to Joseph F Smith, with the exception of Lorenzo Snow whom I hold is THAT man of sin the son of perdition who betrayed the Restoration into the hands of Satan. From Heber J. Grant on Satan has sat in the hearts of all LDS leadership in absolute apostasy and hypocrisy and ignorance and a loss of keys and blindness of heart and mind, only able to teach a false way since. Not that the apostasy had completely crusted over making the Restoration utterly of no effect.

I know this because I was able to accomplish the real gospel by way of the virtue of the Restoration. I 'think' that there are others who have been able to do the same. The actual church is driven into the wilderness of obscurity and darkness. Darkness because they do not see one another as yet. Once these gather together Zion will come forth at once and a nation will be born as the scripture foretold. These will be few in number even compared with the LDS Church. But these will be mighty and full of power and might to stand against the world with a stretched out arm.

[_Nightlion]

I do not know who it was speaking at conference just now and finished before 3 pm as I just happened to turn on my radio. His was the perfect personification of the point of this thread. When he led up to saying what the gospel is, he backed off and skipped over it and continued with the presumption of the gospel. He could not say. He did not in fact even know. This is amazing. It needs nomenclature. A name for this phenomena. Hmm?

[_Turkey]

It is bizarre to me too how the church seems to "sell" the holy spirit. join our church, follow our rules, pay us, and we'll offer you the spirit of God in return.

Also, during conference I tuned myself into the speakers. I may not be the cleverest guy, but I do have a gift of being able to read people. Tuning in to the speakers involves more than simply listening to their words. It involves careful examination of their mannerisms and body language, and the nuances therein,
watching their facial expressions, the timing of their smiles, and their eyes. It involves analyzing their word choices, their tones of voice, their breathing, and the silences in between.

I've found that many of them (not all) seem unmistakably pretentious - actors - President Monson included I'm afraid.

Yes, I must say it seems to me that they are attempting to manufacture "the spirit".

Then again, I could be wrong.

[_Nightlion]

Yes, I must say it seems to me that they are attempting to manufacture "the spirit".

Then again, I could be wrong.

I may be mistaken but I think it was J Ruben Clark who insisted that the church spend all the money they could get to better "stage" the church in the eyes of the world. And the immense building projects got going where a very fine chapel was set on every third or forth block throughout the Salt Lake Valley and much beyond. That was a major turning point.

Cathedrals are nothing new. And all the better than LDS chapels and even temples are restrained finery that compliment the sober walk and conversation that pitches the Spirit of Mormonism to the people. Those who constantly put their product out there by saying, the Spirit this and the Spirit that are selling it. Owning the Spirit would take the conversation well beyond branding the product itself but rather to the results of that product in a real and true Zion and the power to cause it to come forth and be established. That is unheard of throughout all LDSdom.

[_Turkey]

Owning the Spirit would take the conversation well beyond branding the product itself but rather to the results of that product in a real and true Zion and the power to cause it to come forth and be established. That is unheard of throughout all LDSdom.

What happens when people learn to possess the Spirt, and truly walk the path of God? Those men in control lose their grip. People awaken, and start to understand their own roles & responsibility. They realize that a stairway to heaven isn't to be bought, and that these middle-men in power do nothing but oppress them.

So what do these "holy" men do to offset this spiritual rebirth? They synthesize so-called spirit and sell it. The Spirit of God & Truth profits them not.

You know, this sort of reminds me of the U.S. Government's war on drugs. They ban the real stuff for financial interests, as well as to prevent free thinking and conscious awakening.
They manufacture the false stuff which has a stifling effect on the human mind and body, then they promote and sell it because it suits their selfish interests.

Those in power are afraid of losing it, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

You might call this a war on the spirit.

[_Yoda]

That holds with all LDS leadership to Joseph F Smith, with the exception of Lorenzo Snow whom I hold is THAT man of sin the son of perdition who betrayed the Restoration into the hands of Satan

How, exactly, did Lorenzo Snow do that? Are you referring to the Manifesto or something else?

[_Nightlion]

Owning the Spirit would take the conversation well beyond branding the product itself but rather to the results of that product in a real and true Zion and the power to cause it to come forth and be established. That is unheard of throughout all LDSdom.

What happens when people learn to possess the Spirt, and truly walk the path of God? Those men in control lose their grip. People awaken, and start to understand their own roles & responsibility. They realize that a stairway to heaven isn't to be bought, and that these middle-men in power do nothing but oppress them.

So what do these "holy" men do to offset this spiritual rebirth? They synthesize so-called spirit and sell it. The Spirit of God & Truth profits them not.

You know, this sort of reminds me of the U.S. Government's war on drugs. They ban the real stuff for financial interests, as well as to prevent free thinking and conscious awakening.
They manufacture the false stuff which has a stifling effect on the human mind and body, then they promote and sell it because it suits their selfish interests.

Those in power are afraid of losing it, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

You might call this a war on the spirit.

Presidents of the Church used to fight on the other side of the same war:

Note the following from President Wilford Woodruff:

“Joseph Smith visited me a great deal after his death, and taught me many important principles. . . . Among other things, he told me to get the Spirit of God; that all of us needed it. . . .

“Brigham Young also visited me after his death. . . . And he told me what Joseph Smith had taught him in Winter Quarters, to teach the people to get the Spirit of God. He said, ‘I want you to teach the people to get the Spirit of God. You cannot build up the Kingdom of God without that.’

“That is what I want to say to the brethren and sisters here today. Every man and woman in this Church should labor to get that Spirit. We are surrounded by these evil spirits that are at war against God and against everything looking to the building up of the kingdom of God; and we need this Holy Spirit to enable us to overcome these influences. I have had the Holy Ghost in my travels. Every man has that has gone out into the vineyard and labored faithfully for the cause of God. I have referred to the administration of angels to myself. What did these angels do? One of them taught me some things relating to the signs that should precede the coming of the Son of Man. Others came and saved my life. What then? They turned and left me. But how is it with the Holy Ghost? The Holy Ghost does not leave me if I do my duty. It does not leave any man who does his duty. We have known this all the way through. Joseph Smith told Brother John Taylor on one occasion to labor to get the Spirit of God, and to follow its dictation, and it would become a principle of revelation within him. God has blessed me with that, and everything I have done since I have been in this Church has been done upon that principle. The Spirit of God has told me what to do, and I have had to follow that” (“Discourse,” The Deseret Weekly, 7 Nov. 1896, 642–43).

But they were already fighting a losing battle as they had misplaced priorities already and new it not. Sustaining the Brethren was already in place ahead of getting the Spirit correctly. In other words. A man who sustained and fawned over the brethren was trusted ahead of a man filled with the gift and power of the Holy Ghost. The leadership was blind to this deadly error.

They never could back out of the barn and come in right. They had to abandon the implementation of the gift and power of the Holy Ghost as a useless standard against the overwhelming importance of sustaining the leadership first and last in all things. Big oops.
Up until LS their intent was honorable but they were blind.

[_Nightlion]

That holds with all LDS leadership to Joseph F Smith, with the exception of Lorenzo Snow whom I hold is THAT man of sin the son of perdition who betrayed the Restoration into the hands of Satan

How, exactly, did Lorenzo Snow do that? Are you referring to the Manifesto or something else?

Before President Young left England in April 1841, he directed that a copy of the Book of Mormon be taken to Queen Victoria, who had begun her golden reign in 1837, three weeks before the gospel had come to her land. Richly bound copies were made for her and for Prince Albert, and Elder Lorenzo Snow received an audience in 1841, at which time he presented the book to Her Majesty.

History of the Church in Great Britain by Elder Richard L. Evans

Lorenzo Snow had already taken to heart the murder of Joseph Smith. He betrayed the secrets that got Joseph killed. Ergo he became perdition by shedding innocent blood. Much before the fact of Joseph Smith's intended death Satan had taken possession of him and he scampered off to England to betray the gospel to the masses of Druid tares who would back him in the defeat of Joseph's envied Restoration by deftly and stealthily steering the gospel Satan's way and preventing Zion utterly.

#1. Proof of is diabolic treason is canonized in President Joseph F. Smith's vision of the redemption of the dead. All the previous LDS leadership are recognized as being seen in the spirit world with the glaring exception of Lorenzo Snow. LDS ingrained mindset of honoring and sustaining your file leader would have never permitted such an oversight. If Lorenzo was not there then the testament affirms he fell. And nobody who is ever truly born again of fire and of the Holy Ghost falls except to perdition.

#2. Proof of Lorenzo Snow's diabolic treason is found in 2 Thessalonians where that scripture predicting the man of sin the son of perdition who is revealed before the day of the Lord finds perfect fulfillment in the life, words and deeds of Lorenzo Snow. To wit: He opposed and exalted himself above God......as man is God once was, as God is man may become....He sat in the temple of God showing himself that he was God......Lorenzo appointed himself the first temple president of the Salt Lake City Temple where he took up his residence....some fantastic ego that he would move in after the saints labored some forty years to construct "him" a new residence!

#3. Proof of Lorenzo Snow's diabolic treason is found in his history of steering LDS culture with his Polysophical Society. This was the Sunstone of its day. And he personally saw to it that the only United Order attempted by the saints failed in Brigham City as its president.

#4. Proof of Lorenzo Snow's diabolic treason is in how he lied to deceive the saints into believing he was some great man by raising a dead woman (a witch in cahoots no doubt) and giving out that he had seen Christ in the Temple. That with his drawn out saintly look and gesture masked the man as Joseph Smith declared a devil would.

Joseph Smith

If Satan should appear as one in glory, who can tell his color, his signs, his appearance, his glory—or what is the manner of his manifestation? Who can drag into daylight and develop the hidden mysteries of the false spirits that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-day Saints? We answer that no man can do this without the Priesthood, and having a knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as ‘no man knows the things of God, but by the Spirit of God,’ so no man knows the spirit of the devil, and his power and influence, but by possessing intelligence which is more than human, and having unfolded through the medium of the Priesthood the mysterious operations of his devices; without knowing the angelic form, the sanctified look and gesture, and the zeal that is frequently manifested by him for the glory of God, together with the prophetic spirit, the gracious influence, the godly appearance, and the holy garb, which are so characteristic of his proceedings and his mysterious windings.

#5. Proof of Lorenzo Snow's diabolic treason was that he set tithing as the defining virtue of worthiness in the Church. Any bugger can pay money and be approved and trusted by the Church while at the same time be the greatest Satanic Ritualistic abuser going.

That's how I see it.