Postponing Having Children

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_Yahoo Bot
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Re: Postponing Having Children

Post by _Yahoo Bot »

Darth J wrote:
KevinSim wrote:The mission experience does an enormous amount of preparing young men to be good fathers.


Name one specific thing unique to LDS missions that prepares someone to be a good father.

ETA: And specify what you mean by "good" fathers.


There have been a number of statistical studies discussing Mormon sociology. The most influential to me when I serving as a bishop was Brent Top's article in Latter-Day Saint Social Life: Social Research on the LDS Church and Its Members (Religious Studies Center Specialized Monograph Series;, V. 12) [Hardcover]
James T. Duke (Editor).

Although I've never seen studies linking Mormon missionary service to being a good father, there are plenty of studies to show that serving a mission means it much more likely that one will be married in the temple, and a temple marriage makes it extraordinarily less likely that a marriage will end in divorce. Thus, it follows, that a male who serves as a missionary is, from a social sciences perspective, less likely to be a divorced father.

And, of course, studies are legion about the effect of divorce upon children. I should remark that the negative impacts upon children of divorce have been assailed by some social scientists, but the overwhelming academic literature shows real problems with divorce. I point in particular to this North Carolina study: http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/fcs/pdfs/fcs482.pdf.

As a bishop, and I served a very long time by current standards, the one advice I gave to couples (typically sisters) contemplating divorce was that the most significant problem with divorce is that some other parent was going to raise their children, and love rarely is optimal in a step relationship.

As to the positive effects upon the male experience that a mission offers, there have been some non-statistical observations offered by non-members.

See
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-1 ... suite.html
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co ... 977933.htm

But, back to divorce. It has been my non-statistical observation that divorce often leads to a reduced activity level, especially among males. My own personal opinion is that these men see themselves as second-class citizens unworthy of being trusted with leadership positions, and in the Mormon Church leadership positions are where its at for many Mormon males. These divorced men then "pile on" with their problems by retaliating against the Church and against priesthood leaders which might otherwise be in a good position to help them be better fathers or have better relationships with their children and ex-wives. My personal experience among my divorced male LDS friends is that those who keep their covenants are much more likely to have healthy relationships with their kids and exes -- from little things to priesthood advancement and scouting to marriages of children.

And, if this little board is any window upon the world of anti-Mormonism, there appears to be here a staggeringly high percentage of divorced fathers who might also be returned missionaries. Had they not abandoned their families, it would have -- in my estimation -- been a much less likely probability that they'd be here posting.
_Hades
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Re: Postponing Having Children

Post by _Hades »

Yahoo Bot wrote:And, if this little board is any window upon the world of anti-Mormonism, there appears to be here a staggeringly high percentage of divorced fathers who might also be returned missionaries. Had they not abandoned their families, it would have -- in my estimation -- been a much less likely probability that they'd be here posting.

I'm a married, never divorced, returned missionary. My family is out of the church and happier now. You would label me "anti-Mormon", but I'm cool with that. I'm living the impossible dream.
I'm the apostate your bishop warned you about.
_Yahoo Bot
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Re: Postponing Having Children

Post by _Yahoo Bot »

Hades wrote:
Yahoo Bot wrote:And, if this little board is any window upon the world of anti-Mormonism, there appears to be here a staggeringly high percentage of divorced fathers who might also be returned missionaries. Had they not abandoned their families, it would have -- in my estimation -- been a much less likely probability that they'd be here posting.

I'm a married, never divorced, returned missionary. My family is out of the church and happier now. You would label me "anti-Mormon", but I'm cool with that. I'm living the impossible dream.


I label you nothing and never have.

Most uneducated folk, and many educated ones, don't put much stock in sociological studies of religious life.
_Themis
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Re: Postponing Having Children

Post by _Themis »

Yahoo Bot wrote:
And, if this little board is any window upon the world of anti-Mormonism, there appears to be here a staggeringly high percentage of divorced fathers who might also be returned missionaries. Had they not abandoned their families, it would have -- in my estimation -- been a much less likely probability that they'd be here posting.


It is always interesting to see how people think, and how bias influences them. While some in and out of the church have abandoned their families, I don't see that this is the case for most divorced people here. In fact I see more whose spouse have abandoned them due to a loss of belief in LDS truth claims. This is understandable why they would, even if wrong. The high numbers of divorced fathers here is mostly due to their wives leaving them due to their change in belief. It's nice to see some whose spouses may remain believing but do not divorce their spouse. They represent the more mature and understanding.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Postponing Having Children

Post by _Jersey Girl »

DarkHelmet wrote:Mormon men are put on a rigid schedule from the day they're born. Baptized at 8, deacon at 12, teacher at 14, priest at 16, eagle scout before 18, mission at 19, married In the temple at 21, first kid born ASAP after marriage. That's the divine schedule, handed down by the lord. You don't have to follow the schedule exactly. It's optional, but so are the blessings.


Could someone explain to me how becoming an eagle scout has anything at all to do with the religion?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Yahoo Bot
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Re: Postponing Having Children

Post by _Yahoo Bot »

Jersey Girl wrote:
DarkHelmet wrote:Mormon men are put on a rigid schedule from the day they're born. Baptized at 8, deacon at 12, teacher at 14, priest at 16, eagle scout before 18, mission at 19, married In the temple at 21, first kid born ASAP after marriage. That's the divine schedule, handed down by the lord. You don't have to follow the schedule exactly. It's optional, but so are the blessings.


Could someone explain to me how becoming an eagle scout has anything at all to do with the religion?


The Boy Scout program is essentially a religious organization. Atheists are not admitted as scoutmasters nor can one become an eagle scout if one says he is an atheist.

Christian and Jewish organizations embrace the Scouting program although the program is falling on hard times over gay issues. In my area the organization is very popular in the various Jewish temples. About 1/3 of the scout leaders showing up for coordinating meetings are affiliated with temples.

Most sponsoring organizations are religious organizations.
_harmony
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Re: Postponing Having Children

Post by _harmony »

Yahoo Bot wrote:... in the Mormon Church leadership positions are where its at for many Mormon males.


Good grief. This little nugget is just sickening. I sincerely hope you are incorrect, Bot.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Postponing Having Children

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Bot
The Boy Scout program is essentially a religious organization. Atheists are not admitted as scoutmasters nor can one become an eagle scout if one says he is an atheist.

Christian and Jewish organizations embrace the Scouting program although the program is falling on hard times over gay issues. In my area the organization is very popular in the various Jewish temples. About 1/3 of the scout leaders showing up for coordinating meetings are affiliated with temples.

Most sponsoring organizations are religious organizations.


Why is there no emphasis on Girl Scouting for LDS girls?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Postponing Having Children

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Bot,

With regard to your comment that Boy Scouting is essentially a religious organization. Tell me, is that what General Baden-Powell intended it to be?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_DarkHelmet
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Re: Postponing Having Children

Post by _DarkHelmet »

Jersey Girl wrote:Bot
The Boy Scout program is essentially a religious organization. Atheists are not admitted as scoutmasters nor can one become an eagle scout if one says he is an atheist.

Christian and Jewish organizations embrace the Scouting program although the program is falling on hard times over gay issues. In my area the organization is very popular in the various Jewish temples. About 1/3 of the scout leaders showing up for coordinating meetings are affiliated with temples.

Most sponsoring organizations are religious organizations.


Why is there no emphasis on Girl Scouting for LDS girls?


I think girl scouting is viewed as a feminist organization by the church.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
- Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
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