Buffalo wrote:I can't think of a less useful indicator of celestial interference than eyewitness testimony. Can you?
I don't know. Perhaps we have different things in mind. If Jesus truly ascended into heaven right before poeple's eyes I don't think there is any other indicator at all.
Stem, what if Jesus simply disappeared around a corner and was never seen again and someone just put two and two together and came up with seventeen? (i.e. Made an assumption he'd ascended to heaven)
What I mean is that eye witnesses are sometimes prone to make what they see fit what they think rather than allowing what they see to influence their thinking. That human trait makes eye-witness testimony very unreliable.
But I get what you are saying (I think) that sometimes there is nothing in support of an item except an eye witness testimony.
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)
Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
jon wrote:Stem, what if Jesus simply disappeared around a corner and was never seen again and someone just put two and two together and came up with seventeen? (i.e. Made an assumption he'd ascended to heaven)
Then that's what would have happened.
What I mean is that eye witnesses are sometimes prone to make what they see fit what they think rather than allowing what they see to influence their thinking. That human trait makes eye-witness testimony very unreliable.
Jeesh...it ain't that unreliable. You really think its easy enough to spin eye witness testimony each and every time to "well he just wanted to see what he wanted to so his eyes deceived him"? Alright. Let's stop trying to get eyewitnesses to crimes to testify in court then.
But I get what you are saying (I think) that sometimes there is nothing in support of an item except an eye witness testimony.
That is what I'm saying. Buffalo seemed to suggest an eye witness testimony is the worst type of evidence for something like that. I think in many cases, I don't know what evidence he'd expect--eye witness is all we could possibly have.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
What I mean is that eye witnesses are sometimes prone to make what they see fit what they think rather than allowing what they see to influence their thinking. That human trait makes eye-witness testimony very unreliable.
Jeesh...it ain't that unreliable. You really think its easy enough to spin eye witness testimony each and every time to "well he just wanted to see what he wanted to so his eyes deceived him"? all right. Let's stop trying to get eyewitnesses to crimes to testify in court then.
When was the last time a court relied solely on eye witness testimony?
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)
Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
stemelbow wrote:I don't know. Perhaps we have different things in mind. If Jesus truly ascended into heaven right before poeple's eyes I don't think there is any other indicator at all.
That's not the kind of thing we tend to get first-hand testimony of. But at the very least, we'd certainly be able to get satellite imagery, blips on radars, etc.
Unfortunately, as we learned in conference last weekend, what passes for miracles these days is finding quarters on the ground. Not very impressive.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
If God interevened in the world, science wouldn't work
I've talked to way too many theists who think exactly that: god intervenes in the world, and science doesn't work.
Hence, magic is real.
I had a guy at work tell me, in his most sincere voice, that he thought all the scientists in the world were influenced by Satan to see the wrong things. This statement isn't so remarkable on its own as it is coming from him. This friend isn't stupid.
Oh crap... now I've got that bloody song in my head, Do You Believe in Magic?
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
jon wrote:When was the last time a court relied solely on eye witness testimony?
I don't keep track of stuff like that. But when was the last time a court said, "well you know we don't have anything at all but this eye witness testimony which we know is the worst most unreliable thing ever. So let's just throw this all out." Better yet when was the last time a court made a decision with something less that eyewitness testimony? I think that trial my wife was all concerned about recently shows us a case of that--some gal from US getting convicted of murdering someone in Italy. Can't think of names right now, but you know what I mean.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
stemelbow wrote:I don't keep track of stuff like that. But when was the last time a court said, "well you know we don't have anything at all but this eye witness testimony which we know is the worst most unreliable thing ever. So let's just throw this all out." Better yet when was the last time a court made a decision with something less that eyewitness testimony? I think that trial my wife was all concerned about recently shows us a case of that--some gal from US getting convicted of murdering someone in Italy. Can't think of names right now, but you know what I mean.
How about this...Provide one recent example of god interfering with our world/existence/science/etc...Anything that you can, definitively, tie to a god....If you can't, then god seems to be an insignificant/non-existent factor in human existence....
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents "I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs
schreech wrote:How about this...Provide one recent example of god interfering with our world/existence/science/etc...Anything that you can, definitively, tie to a god....If you can't, then god seems to be an insignificant/non-existent factor in human existence....
In all honesty I wish the world was as black and white as you paint it. It'd be much easier.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
stemelbow wrote:In all honesty I wish the world was as black and white as you paint it. It'd be much easier.
Ah, so you have no examples....got it...
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents "I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs