I've switched sides...again

[_Themis]

My experience was far more (in my opinion) than warm fuzzies. I'm not prone to spiritual experiences. It has happened only once.

I've often questioned why it happened to me and hasn't happened to many others (especially others that want it to happen and end up leaving the church because it didn't). I've also questioned why the General Authorities will often say the witness may not come in a powerful way, but slowly and with quiet thoughts or assurances. That wasn't my experience. It did come in a very powerful, poignant and personal way.

That is why I look evidence in the face and go with my experience. Foolish?

Do you consider the brain incapable of producing powerful experiences on their own? Do people have powerful experiences and come away with a multitude of different meanings? Should we not then consider evidence that contradicts what meaning we have come away with. I know I have, but we each get to decide for ourselves. :)

[_Themis]

You had an inner experience. What would it mean to disprove it? Experiences are brain events. I am sure there was a brain event. But, so what?


Example: I had a weird feeling one day associated with the conviction that old blue haired women are really super intelligent beings controlling human politics. Can you disprove my experience?
Well, it isn't my experience that needs disproving is it now. It is the claim! My inner feeling is irrelevant.

I see you get my point then. Thanks.

I like Tarski's example. It is the claim that needs to be analyzed.

To experience it is in itself part of the conclusion.

Not really. As in tarski's example one still has to interpret the stimuli. It can be a feeling and thought about the old blue haired women, but one still had to have the thought enter their mind.

[_Abaddon]

In a way the evidence against the church seems so obvious to me that it's like adding 2+2 to make 4.

So why am I abandoning my apostasy and returning back to activity and just got finished confessing to my bishop tonight in an attempt to return to activity?

Did you tell him you believed the LDS church was true? If so, were you telling the truth?

That didn't come up.

I told him I wanted to come back to be with my family and take the Sacrament. I never mentioned to him that I believe the church is true.

I do believe there are true things about it, but I don't think the church has everything right. In a way, I'm still a bit NOMish.

[_Abaddon]

I just want to live the golden rule and I'm using the church as a vehicle to do that. Is it a perfect vehicle to use? Heck no. There are many different vehicles or avenues, but this is the one that feels "right" to me.

Why do you need a vehicle to live the golden rule?

I'm a lazy guy Hades.

I always said when I left church that I would find my own ways to serve. I ended up just watching sports or playing video games in lieu of church callings/service.

If I'm more active in church, they'll provide ways for me to serve. Sometimes I'll just have to show up to serve (others already having performed the ground-work to get the service activity going).

Some may not need a vehicle because they live the golden rule and I respect them for it.

[_Some Schmo]

I'm a lazy guy Hades.

I always said when I left church that I would find my own ways to serve. I ended up just watching sports or playing video games in lieu of church callings/service.

If I'm more active in church, they'll provide ways for me to serve. Sometimes I'll just have to show up to serve (others already having performed the ground-work to get the service activity going).

Some may not need a vehicle because they live the golden rule and I respect them for it.

I remember my dad (a life insurance salesman for many years) once telling me that a whole life insurance policies were much better than a term policies because it made people save money while insuring themselves. Of course, he didn't talk about how your rate of return sucked, or how if you cashed in on that savings, it lowered the policy amount, or even the fact that built into the premium were the overhead fees of a packaged life insurance deal. His reasoning was, "Sure, term life gives a better return, as do your own investments, but people aren't disciplined enough to do both."

He also failed to mention that his commissions for selling whole life packages were about 10 times greater than what he got for selling term. Hmmm... I wonder where all that commission comes from? And is there an analog to the church in this part of the story too...?

The question is, is your laziness really worth the outrageous hidden costs you have to pay to go the church route rather than just getting off your ass and doing it on your own?

Nothing makes a person end up working harder than laziness.

[_Nomad]

You know, the evidence against the church seems so logical in my head. There are so many things you can post that cast a gloomy light on the church and puts their whole foundation and history of truth in question.

In a way the evidence against the church seems so obvious to me that it's like adding 2+2 to make 4.

So why am I abandoning my apostasy and returning back to activity and just got finished confessing to my bishop tonight in an attempt to return to activity?

It all goes back to a faithful experience that no scientific answer I've searched for adequately explains (to me; I've no doubt it may for others). It is that spiritual experience that keeps resurfacing in my mind and almost compels me to seek out the LDS church again.

I very well could die and never wake up again.
I very well could die and God say to me, how OBVIOUS did I need to make it that the LDS church is wrong?

But based on my spiritual experience that I had over 15 years ago (and still remains fresh in my mind) I don't believe either of those things will happen. They could, but I don't believe it will.

I'm nothing special, but I wanted to put this out there anyway because of some negative things I've posted about the church in the past (I'm pretty sure I spoke the truth on those negative things, but I posted them in a negative and sneering way).

Anyway, good night and big balls.

(Wipeout reference for those that don't watch the show.)

If I were you I'd stay clear away from this place if you're trying to go back to church and nurture your testimony. This is no place for someone whose testimony is fragile. These people will rip you to pieces. And it won't be because they're right and you're wrong. It's just that there's so many of them and they will keep attacking you and attacking you and you won't be able to answer them all and you'll start to entertain your doubts again and ... well, just saying. Go ahead and stick around if you'd like. I just think it's a bad idea for one who is trying to develop faith again.

[_stemelbow]

If I were you I'd stay clear away from this place if you're trying to go back to church and nurture your testimony. This is no place for someone whose testimony is fragile. These people will rip you to pieces. And it won't be because they're right and you're wrong. It's just that there's so many of them and they will keep attacking you and attacking you and you won't be able to answer them all and you'll start to entertain your doubts again and ... well, just saying. Go ahead and stick around if you'd like. I just think it's a bad idea for one who is trying to develop faith again.

I get the feeling he's heard it all before.

[_hatersinmyward]

I get the feeling he's heard it all before.

What's the most you've ever lost on a coin toss?

[_stemelbow]

What's the most you've ever lost on a coin toss?

my soul

[_Morley]

What's the most you've ever lost on a coin toss?

my soul

That explains your belief system.