Well its Started, The C word has entered the Presidential

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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Well its Started, The C word has entered the Presidential

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Hoops wrote:
But this little game of yours is tiresome... the list of questions to sniff out any potential - real or imagined - religious persecution.


You have got Jason Bourne ALL wrong. I've never once seen him cry religious persecution in the several years that I have been reading him.

Not once.

You got the wrong guy, Hoops.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Brackite
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Re: Well its Started, The C word has entered the Presidential

Post by _Brackite »

I would vote for either Governor Rick Perry or Mitt Romney over President Barack Obama. President Barack Obama Promised hope and change.
When President Barack Obama first entered office, the National average price for gasoline was about $2.00 a gallon. The average price for gasoline is now at about $3.40 a gallon. The average price for gasoline in California is now at about $3.80 a gallon. High gas prices hurts mostly the Low-income earning People. When the stimulus Package was passed by the House and the Senate and signed into law by President Barack Obama back in February of 2009, the National Unemployment rate was at 8.2%. Now the National Unemployment rate is at 9.1%. The State of California overwhelmingly voted for Barack Obama for President back in November of 2008. When the stimulus Package was passed by the House and the Senate and signed into law by President Barack Obama back in February of 2009, California's unemployment rate was at 10.5%. Now California's unemployment rate is as high as 12.1%.
Solyndra, a company based within California, was supposed to create several thousands of ‘Green Jobs' within California. However, After having received over a half-billion dollars in stimulus money, Solyndra ended up going bankrupt.


Gasoline prices fall again but are still higher than usual in fall:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-g ... 3736.story

California unemployment rate hits 12.1% as employers slash jobs:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-c ... 3644.story


Solyndra files for bankruptcy, looks for buyer:
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financia ... J89JG0.htm

Obama advisors raised warning flags before Solyndra bankruptcy:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 8311.story
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_DrW
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Re: Well its Started, The C word has entered the Presidential

Post by _DrW »

Hoops wrote:
DrW wrote:I come from a long line of Mormons, many of whom were right of the John Birch Society, and have much to atone for on this Earth in terms of the political sins of my fathers.

If you had lived overseas during the Bush administration as I did, and seen firsthand how the attitude towards America and Americans suffered, even among our allies and "friends", under the arrogant idiocy of that man and his administration, you would not say that my statements were ridiculous.

It could take this country and many parts of the world 20 years to recover for what GWB and the Republicans did during his administration. If you had the slightest inkling of the damage done -- well enough said.

Nope, no "garden variety" liberal here. If someone like you knew how liberal I really am relative to most Mormons and Evangelicals, and the kinds of things I do to make amends and to try and bring balance into the world for the political wrongs that religion and my forbearers have committed, they would probably not sleep well tonight.

For a non-liberal, you sure trot that same old tired liberal lines. Your response here being typical. "Liberals are just so much more nuanced and cosmopolitan in there thinking." "I know more than you, so you're opinion is invalid." So, of course, you must be right.

Frankly, I DO say your statements are ridiculous, ridiculously wrong, including the one above. And you DON'T know more than me. That is just your reflexive, default position because liberalism is oh so well-thought out. When, in fact, liberalism is the height of emotionalism - see your comments above. GWB's policies must be wrong because Europeans were mad at us. Not because they were demonstrably wrong. If you want to discuss how they were wrong, fine, but it would seem that your position is that they were wrong simply because they were his. Like any other non-liberal. Kinda like the views of any religious person.

If you actually read what I wrote, you will see that I do not claim to be a "non liberal". I claim not to be a "garden variety" liberal, whereafter I state that I am very (perhaps extremely) liberal as compared to most Mormons and Evangelicals. Did you miss that?

Given your response above, including the fact that you assumed (incorrectly) that "living overseas" meant living in Europe, I am going to assume that your reading comprehension skills when it comes to politics and world events is no better than those you demonstrate when it comes to message boards.

Accordingly, out of kindness and deference to you, I suggest we terminate this exchange before you cause yourself any additional embarrassment.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_MCB
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Re: Well its Started, The C word has entered the Presidential

Post by _MCB »

As I have said before, the religious right is almost as wrong as the Mormon right. The Christian right in the United States is a natural result of the fundamentalism that also spawned the Mormon right. They have no right to condemn Mormonism for its flawed theology.

Thus says the centrist independent Catholic. Can we look at the fundamentalist political platform and compare it with the Sermon on the Mount, and other New Testament teachings on social justice?

Sheesh, they are all nuts.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_sock puppet
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Re: Well its Started, The C word has entered the Presidential

Post by _sock puppet »

Jason,

I know your question was addressed to Hoops, but I want to answer it for myself. That being the question about whether I would not vote for Romney because of his religion.

In 2007-2008, the only Mormon that ran was Romney. I not only did not vote for him, I was opposed to the notion that he might become president. Since then I thought it had to do with Romney's being a Mormon.

Then Huntsman announced earlier this year. I looked at several online sources about his governorship in Utah and since, and I came away very favorably impressed. I decided that I would be able to vote for Huntsman. The fact he was Mormon did not bother me.

This made me reassess why I do not like Romney. The reasons that I have identified, and would not vote for him, include his religion. By that, I mean the way that he struts it. There was no reason for his speech on religion last time, other than he was trying to echo JFK's speech in 1960. America had grown up in the meantime about a candidate's religion, and the media 'noise' was many, many decibels less about Romney's Mormonism than there was back in 1960 over JFK's Catholicism. Romney's doing that speech is illustrative of why I would not vote for him because of his religion. Romney has made and continues to make his religion an issue, basically daring people to challenge him on it. He wants to appeal to the conscience of voters, hoping they will vote for him if for no other reason than to prove that religion isn't an issue in politics for them. (Many white people voted, I believe, for Obama in 2008 for much the same reason--as proof that they would vote for an African American for president.)

With Huntsman, his religion is a non-issue. Romney will keep his religion an issue as long as he's yet in the race for 2012. For me, that is enough not to vote for him because of his religion, specifically because of how Romney insists on keeping his religion in the forefront of his political campaign.
_Hoops
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Re: Well its Started, The C word has entered the Presidential

Post by _Hoops »

If you actually read what I wrote, you will see that I do not claim to be a "non liberal". I claim not to be a "garden variety" liberal, whereafter I state that I am very (perhaps extremely) liberal as compared to most Mormons and Evangelicals. Did you miss that?
Not sure what the difference is. Degrees of pomposity is still pomposity.

Given your response above, including the fact that you assumed (incorrectly) that "living overseas" meant living in Europe, I am going to assume that your reading comprehension skills when it comes to politics and world events is no better than those you demonstrate when it comes to message boards.
It's a natural and not terribly revealing error. Most Westerners would assume that you were working in anaother Western country. Which would probably be in Europe, though not exxclusively of course. But.... so what? Who cares where you lived? I certainly don't. And what difference does it make?

Accordingly, out of kindness and deference to you, I suggest we terminate this exchange before you cause yourself any additional embarrassment.
Yeah, right. Your worried about my embarassment. Liberals are so interesting.
_Brackite
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Re: Well its Started, The C word has entered the Presidential

Post by _Brackite »

Mitt Romney has just responded.

Romney responds to Mormon flare-up; Perry passes:
http://news.yahoo.com/romney-responds-m ... 22938.html
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_Hoops
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Re: Well its Started, The C word has entered the Presidential

Post by _Hoops »

MCB wrote:As I have said before, the religious right is almost as wrong as the Mormon right. The Christian right in the United States is a natural result of the fundamentalism that also spawned the Mormon right. They have no right to condemn Mormonism for its flawed theology.

Thus says the centrist independent Catholic. Can we look at the fundamentalist political platform and compare it with the Sermon on the Mount, and other New Testament teachings on social justice?

Sheesh, they are all nuts.


Bull.
_Quasimodo
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Re: Well its Started, The C word has entered the Presidential

Post by _Quasimodo »

Hoops wrote:
MCB wrote:As I have said before, the religious right is almost as wrong as the Mormon right. The Christian right in the United States is a natural result of the fundamentalism that also spawned the Mormon right. They have no right to condemn Mormonism for its flawed theology.

Thus says the centrist independent Catholic. Can we look at the fundamentalist political platform and compare it with the Sermon on the Mount, and other New Testament teachings on social justice?

Sheesh, they are all nuts.


Bull.


I'm unhappy with any candidate that professes a strong belief in any religion. The thought that a President's decision making would have a presupposed bias based on childhood teachings scares me a little.

The world is a volatile, ever changing place. It takes quick wits and unbiased thought to deal with that successfully. Someone who's decisions will be influenced by questionable dogma is not really up to the job.

Any candidate that claims strong religious views is either a liar or a fool. Neither of the two would make a good President.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_Hoops
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Re: Well its Started, The C word has entered the Presidential

Post by _Hoops »

I'm unhappy with any candidate that professes a strong belief in any religion.
Fair enough. I'll assume you allow the same freedom for religionists to require a strong belief from their candidates.

The thought that a President's decision making would have a presupposed bias
One could make the same argument of atheists.

based on childhood teachings scares me a little.
If they're religious now, one would assume that they've continued to be taught as adults.

The world is a volatile, ever changing place. It takes quick wits and unbiased thought to deal with that successfully
Quite true.

Someone who's decisions will be influenced by questionable dogma is not really up to the job.
There's all kinds of questionable dogma out there. Conservatism and liberalism are two that I can think of. I don't think you'll find any candidate who can satisfy this.

Any candidate that claims strong religious views is either a liar or a fool. Neither of the two would make a good President.

Fair enough again. Any candidate who believes the answers to life's difficult questions lie in his/her own head is an arrogant fool. Two sides of the same coin.
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