Why Many LDS are Angry at Packer's GC Talk

[_Fiannan]

Notice he says "maybe even great grandchildren." Okay, so if Sir Isaac Newton was correct about Jesus returning in 2060 then that seems just about right since that is 5 decades away.

[_sock puppet]

One criticism I’ve heard is that Packer, in his talk, contradicted what has seemingly been a common promise in the patriarchal blessings of the Saints, namely, that a person will be blessed to live to see the Second Coming, or to be alive during the Millennium. In the last two lines of his talk, Packer said:

[quote "Packer"]Sometimes you might be tempted to think as I did from time to time in my youth: “The way things are going, the world’s going to be over with. The end of the world is going to come before I get to where I should be.” Not so! You can look forward to doing it right—getting married, having a family, seeing your children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren.

There's no contradiction here at all. The only "world" that is going to end when the Second Coming occurs is the world of the wicked. The earth - for those who have lived a Celestial and Terrestrial law - will still continue, as will marriage, child bearing and rearing, life, and progression, children and grandchildren. Elder Packer is speaking here, I think, for those who have "ears to hear" in the scriptural sense.

The one really substantial difference, beyond some fairly large biological/physical changes in the earth as a planet, that will attend the Millennium, will be the absence of the wicked, and of wickedness. That "world" will have passed.

Will you still have to pay your mortgage off?

[_sock puppet]

One criticism I’ve heard is that Packer, in his talk, contradicted what has seemingly been a common promise in the patriarchal blessings of the Saints, namely, that a person will be blessed to live to see the Second Coming, or to be alive during the Millennium. In the last two lines of his talk, Packer said:

[quote "Packer"]Sometimes you might be tempted to think as I did from time to time in my youth: “The way things are going, the world’s going to be over with. The end of the world is going to come before I get to where I should be.” Not so! You can look forward to doing it right—getting married, having a family, seeing your children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren.

There's no contradiction here at all. The only "world" that is going to end when the Second Coming occurs is the world of the wicked. The earth - for those who have lived a Celestial and Terrestrial law - will still continue, as will marriage, child bearing and rearing, life, and progression, children and grandchildren. Elder Packer is speaking here, I think, for those who have "ears to hear" in the scriptural sense.

The one really substantial difference, beyond some fairly large biological/physical changes in the earth as a planet, that will attend the Millennium, will be the absence of the wicked, and of wickedness. That "world" will have passed.

Droopy, if that is so, why did BKP say "maybe even great-grandchildren"? With a 1,000 year millennium, of course there would be time to have great-grandchildren--unless it is because BKP was referencing the time remaining before the 2nd coming and the millennium begins.

[Guest]

One criticism I’ve heard is that Packer, in his talk, contradicted what has seemingly been a common promise in the patriarchal blessings of the Saints, namely, that a person will be blessed to live to see the Second Coming, or to be alive during the Millennium. In the last two lines of his talk, Packer said:

[quote "Packer"]Sometimes you might be tempted to think as I did from time to time in my youth: “The way things are going, the world’s going to be over with. The end of the world is going to come before I get to where I should be.” Not so! You can look forward to doing it right—getting married, having a family, seeing your children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren.

There's no contradiction here at all. The only "world" that is going to end when the Second Coming occurs is the world of the wicked. The earth - for those who have lived a Celestial and Terrestrial law - will still continue, as will marriage, child bearing and rearing, life, and progression, children and grandchildren. Elder Packer is speaking here, I think, for those who have "ears to hear" in the scriptural sense.

The one really substantial difference, beyond some fairly large biological/physical changes in the earth as a planet, that will attend the Millennium, will be the absence of the wicked, and of wickedness. That "world" will have passed.

Epic.Fail.
[/quote]



I understand that your all encompassing lack of substantive knowledge of LDS doctrine prevents you from comprehending or engaging my observations and points here, Toronto, but I've long ago grown impervious to the bouncing of clear statements and concepts off of unresponsive walls.

[_Droopy]

Hey Droopy, what will your God do with anti-Mormons like me?

Send you to Detroit.

[Guest]

Droopy,

I think we are entitled to take Packer's talk at face value.

Then do so, but you'll need a substantive working knowledge of LDS doctrine for the task at hand, if that is your intention.

Packer's language was clear and unambiguous. I don't think when he addressed the Second Coming he was speaking only to those who have "ears to hear" in the scriptural sense.

But if you did not have such ears, how would you know?

Packer was mainly addressing his comments on the Second Coming to the youth of the Church to assuage any concerns or fears. It would be fair to say that one can rest assured the Second Coming will not be happening any time in the near future.

Logically crippled, as an inference. LDS doctrine is clear that many of the ways and functions of mortality we now engage in, including family relationships, the having and raising of children, and other similar pursuits, will continue during the Millennium, though under much improved Terrestrial, or paradisaical conditions. There is no reason to think that Elder Packer was not speaking of both present Telestial conditions and future Terrestrial conditions in the sense of a continuity between those conditions, as both those living a Celestial and a Terrestrial law will, according to LDS theology "cross over" the threshold of the Second Coming into the Millennium. Only the "world" of the wicked will come to an end in an absolute and final sense.

Now, I'm not sure what to make of the literally millions (and mine too) of patriarchial blessings that promise individuals they will not die until the Second Coming. Maybe some members are owed a do-over?

1. All such blessings are conditional

2. The Second Coming may be far closer than most suspect.

[_Droopy]

Droopy, if that is so, why did BKP say "maybe even great-grandchildren"? With a 1,000 year millennium, of course there would be time to have great-grandchildren--unless it is because BKP was referencing the time remaining before the 2nd coming and the millennium begins.

Then the question is the basis upon which one would claim which reference was the correct one.

[_Cardinal Biggles]

Hey Droopy, what will your God do with anti-Mormons like me?

Send you to Detroit.

What will he do with the homosexuals? How about those who only suffer from same-sex attraction but do not act upon it?

[_bcspace]

I'm not angry at Packer's talk and my PB says I will do temple work in the millenium with my wife. Doesn't say which side of the veil though.

[_jon]

I don't have a big beef with it, although it does seem to contradict previous Church positions on the second coming - so it is significant.

What would those be?

From the Doctrine & Covenants
 

87 For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig tree.

What should one read into the phrase 'for not many days hence'? I'm guessing on planet bcspace this translates as 'not for at least hundreds of years'. Feel free to correct me on my translation.