ScienceWhopper:Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

[Guest]

I am again stunned.

We have been seriously wasting our time.

Franktalk, you had me at "...all of the other rivers in the United States all add up to the same sediment discharge number of the Mississippi. So 2.64 x 10^17 cu ft / (2) x 11.22 x 10^9 cu ft / year = 11.75 x 10^6 years to erode the United States."

DrW,
Thank you for your considered and researched post.

Jon,

Thank you for your kind words. I have enjoyed this thread and learned a few things.

When it comes to Franktalk, I should have been more like Morley and dialed up the skepticism a bit. Guess I am now left to agree with Tarski where Frankentalk is concerned.

Since the views to posts ratio is running about 7:1 for this thread, I can only hope that there have some lurkers who were able to clearly see the contrast between the thinking and logic of those with evidence based worldviews and that of those who have worldviews based on superstition and unfounded belief (okay, religion).

It is hard to imagine a more stark contrast between the two than has been evident on this thread.

[_Franktalk]

I have enjoyed this thread. You are right it has been used to expose a contrast of opinion. Where I have discussed my opinion many on the scientific side say they have facts. That embrace of the unknown as known does expose the mindset of many of the world.

People enjoy new ideas and new ways of viewing the world. Many people have an open mind and are searching for answers. They don't don't like the approach that many on this thread have taken that to have a new thought equates to being stupid and immediately that person should be rejected. The ideas that I hold on to are not supported by people I have trodden down and stood on. I am not sure if some on this thread could make that same claim.

I see that DrW has returned to morphing my name. That is fine I have been called many things and it will continue as long as I place myself on these types of threads. The comments that DrW made about morphing someones name stand as a testament of his true nature.

[_Chap]

According to your approach to "truth", anyone can make up any story they want about what happened during the creation "days" and then claim, as you do, that since we "do not know" that their version is a valid as anyone that from anyone else.

No, that's not the case at all. Is it not true that time is relative? Doesn't science tell us that time flows at different rates depending on one's location in the universe? The Bible supports this based on the language in Gen 1:1-32. That's the question. Not whether ANY theory can be inserted here, but if the Biblical record tells us what Buffalo claims it does - that is: the earth is 6000 years old. It does not, by at least one interpretation.

Hoops made this post twice. In between the two posts I posted the whole of Genesis chapter 1, and asked her to show where "the language in Gen 1:1-32" has anything about time flowing at different rates.

Apart from one later reference to the importance of "the language used" by her, answer came there none. As someone else has observed, she doesn't follow through her assertions with rational argument - she just asserts.

Is it a waste of time to point this out? So far as Hoops is concerned, maybe yes.

But there may be innocent children reading this who are beginning to wonder whether (as their home-schooling parents are telling them) 'the Bible is true'. Well kids, if during your stolen moments on the internet you want to see an example of the intellectual caliber of the people who believe that, here's Hoops as a specimen. Enjoy.

[_Franktalk]

But there may be innocent children reading this who are beginning to wonder whether (as their home-schooling parents are telling them) 'the Bible is true'. Well kids, if during your stolen moments on the internet you want to see an example of the intellectual caliber of the people who believe that, here's Hoops as a specimen. Enjoy.

Yes children this is what pride looks like. It is the belief that ones own self is the root of everything. It is the manifestation of self worship and the embrace of man's knowledge. Chap is right that one day you must choose between seeing powers beyond the creation or worshiping the creation. Isn't it wonderful that God gave us free will.

[_Buffalo]

I have enjoyed this thread. You are right it has been used to expose a contrast of opinion. Where I have discussed my opinion many on the scientific side say they have facts. That embrace of the unknown as known does expose the mindset of many of the world.

People enjoy new ideas and new ways of viewing the world. Many people have an open mind and are searching for answers. They don't don't like the approach that many on this thread have taken that to have a new thought equates to being stupid and immediately that person should be rejected. The ideas that I hold on to are not supported by people I have trodden down and stood on. I am not sure if some on this thread could make that same claim.

I see that DrW has returned to morphing my name. That is fine I have been called many things and it will continue as long as I place myself on these types of threads. The comments that DrW made about morphing someones name stand as a testament of his true nature.

I'm not sure how courageous it is to reject facts and embrace superstition, as you apparently have done. Its a popular American pastime. It's not like you're going against the flow.

[_DrW]

I see that DrW has returned to morphing my name. That is fine I have been called many things and it will continue as long as I place myself on these types of threads. The comments that DrW made about morphing someones name stand as a testament of his true nature.

FrankTalk,

I don't expect you to believe this, and hope you are willing to forgive 7 times 70
(Matthew 18:22), but I did not intend to morph your name.

Again, I immediately went back and changed it once the error was pointed out to me.

I am working in a Mac today, which spell-checks directly in the text box, and I am so used to seeing FrankTalk underlined in red, that I simple don't pay attention to it anymore.

Again, I apologize. Really.

As I said, I do not like it when Pahoran or DCP "morph" the names of other posters and I am embarrassed to see that I have done it, once again.

If there is any way that I can make it up to you, please let me know. (I have already referenced a Bible passage, which for me is quite a concession ;-)

Thanks.

[_Buffalo]

As I said, I do not like it when Pahoran or DCP "morph" the names of other posters and I am embarrassed to see that I have done it, once again.

Oh, you mean Pahmoron and Banal C. Pooperson?

Sorry, I just wanted to feel for a moment what it's like to be them. It's a little like going back to third grade.

[_Franktalk]

FrankTalk,

I don't expect you to believe this (unless you are willing to forgive 7 times 7), but I did not intend to morph your name. Again, I went back and changed it once the error was pointed out to me.

I am working in a Mac, which spell-checks directly in the text box, and I am so used to seeing FrankTalk underlined in red, that I simple don't pay attention to it anymore.

Again, I apologize. Really.

As I said, I do not like it when Pahoran or DCP "morph" the names of other posters and I am embarrassed to see that I have done it, once again.

If there is any way that I can make it up to you, please let me know.

Thanks.

I do forgive and forget. I make mistakes all of the time. But let me go further on your 7 times 7 comment.

Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

This seventy times seven I think refers to the 70 weeks of years prophecy of Daniel. Where after the end of the seventy weeks there will be an end to sin. So Jesus is saying to forgive until sin is no more.

We may argue back and forth over many issues but deep inside we are all the same. I have my opinion as to what that means and others have their views as well. So let us argue and have reason as our friend. The world is a stage and we play on it. Many in the world watch and don't play as you and I.

[_DrW]

FrankTalk,

Thanks. Now just for your consideration, and to underscore the difference between rational and religious thought patterns, I provide here a quotation from one of the two religious right nutjobs who were on parade in the Republican debate last evening.

Michele Bachmann says that Cain's plan is dangerous because if you turn "9-9-9" upside down it reads "666." "The devil is in the details," she said with a cold smile.

When you look at the caliber of some of the people who come out of the woodwork to run for President from the Republican Party, it sort of makes you proud to be an American, does it not?

[_Franktalk]

FrankTalk,

Thanks. Now just for your consideration, and to underscore the difference between rational and religious thought patterns, I provide here a quotation from one of the two religious right nutjobs who were on parade in the Republican debate last evening.

Michele Bachmann says that Cain's plan is dangerous because if you turn "9-9-9" upside down it reads "666." "The devil is in the details," she said with a cold smile.

When you look at the caliber of some of the people who come out of the woodwork to run for President from the Republican Party, it sort of makes you proud to be an American, does it not?

The comment from Bachmann is good in that it exposed how she thinks. That is why we have debates. For her to bring up 666 is just stupid. But as you know the world is filled with people who say the dumbest things. I know I have said some really dumb things. But I keep trying to get better and form a better view of reality as I go along.

I like Cain in the sense that he comes from a tough background and has been successful in business. The media used him like a tool when they came out with the painted rock issue. I am sure he learned something from that event.

I am not sure how long I will stay on this site but while here I am sure we will have some interesting chats.