You say you want a revolution well, you know...

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_Buffalo
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Re: You say you want a revolution well, you know...

Post by _Buffalo »

Droopy wrote:
What the Left is terrified of, and despises at a deeper level than any single issue, is the free, independent individual grounded in a moral universe of ethical boundaries and thresholds with relation to other individuals and his society, substantially independent of and with few claims upon government, and free to excel, prosper, and "self actualize" (to use Maslow's term) outside the control and herding of the state and of state approved "experts."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cHsPCAZlP4
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_cinepro
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Re: You say you want a revolution well, you know...

Post by _cinepro »

Droopy wrote:Lame, Cinepro, really very, very lame. I actually expect more from you than this.


Have you actually watched the entire video of what happened in Atlanta?

The group took a vote and the "consensus" was that they didn't want to afford anyone special privileges because of their political power. John Lewis wasn't allowed to speak not because of any sort of power structure at the rally. He didn't speak because of jazz hands.

The "occupy" groups may be many things, but "fascist" is definitely not one of them. In fact, a little strong leadership is exactly what they need.
_moksha
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Re: You say you want a revolution well, you know...

Post by _moksha »

Droopy, the Tea Party was an effort by Fox Media and assisted by the coffers of some billionaires aimed at getting the AM radio audience all worked up. A grassroots movement is a ground swell aided by community organizers.
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_honorentheos
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Re: You say you want a revolution well, you know...

Post by _honorentheos »

Droopy,

Prior to the Occupy Wallstreet protests, there has been an ongoing protest at the White House that exemplifies the type of movement that I feel best represents the opposite of the Tea Party - the Keystone Pipeline protest.

Day after day, white collar intelligent Americans have been staging sit-ins at the White House to demonstrate against the potential construction and impacts of a large pipeline from Canada to Texas. You can watch a video here of the typical activities of these protesters, and what the response has been. Keystone Protesters

When the Tea Party movement was a true grass roots movement prior to being bought out, it represented an anger over government spending. Not just any spending, but spending to bail out banks, take over ownership of failing companies like GM, spending on programs and actions that may not be in the best interest of the average American. When they began, they didn't just turn on the Democrats, they were just as ready to throw George W. out on his ear.

I'm sorry Droops, but your protest has been bought out. Now, the Tea Party stands for sympathy for the very things it began in protest of - sympathy for a Wall Street that invented monopoly money schemes like CDO's and default swaps that exacerbated the damage of the housing bubble collapse, sympathy for the banks that viewed the government organizations like Freddy and Fanny as a safety net allowing them to gamble with no risk while every American home owner has lost a significant amount of wealth represented by the value of their homes, sympathy for rapidly rising unregulated health care costs bore by American companies and their employees at the expense of insurance company profits, sympathy for the guys paying for the message.

You're not a patriot, Droopy. You're a purchased agent of this non-governmental "other" that is very willing to have bought your allegiance at the expense of your love for country.

You're a sell-out, Droops. Own it. You're paying for it already as are we all.
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_Droopy
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Re: You say you want a revolution well, you know...

Post by _Droopy »

Prior to the Occupy Wallstreet protests, there has been an ongoing protest at the White House that exemplifies the type of movement that I feel best represents the opposite of the Tea Party - the Keystone Pipeline protest.

Day after day, white collar intelligent Americans have been staging sit-ins at the White House to demonstrate against the potential construction and impacts of a large pipeline from Canada to Texas. You can watch a video here of the typical activities of these protesters, and what the response has been.


These area the typical affluent yuppie leftists protesting, in the standard mode of utter intellectual stupefaction and educational emptiness that defines such people and their approach to such issues.

Are they civil? Well, for the most part (there were upwards of 117 arrests during the protests, again, something virtually unknown at Tea Party rallies), and this is very rare for any such protest on the Left in either recent years or within my lifetime (and let's not pretend that this shirt and tie outing has not been carefully planned to weed out the very types of people who usually comprise the vast majority of protesters as similar events in the historic past). Who are they? Tools of the same environmental movement that squats at the bottom of the very reason the Keystone pipeline is desperately needed: the critical deterioration of America's energy infrastructure and a more than thirty year hiatus of new construction of traditional or nuclear energy generation infrastructure, including any new petroleum refining and distribution capacity in well over three decades.

These are the same intellectually dumbed down boomer and post-boomer children of the modern public school system, mainstream news journalism, and the PC academy, driven by emotion and images of their own moral grandiosity who have swallowed the AGW Kool-aid hook, line, and tackle box, who believe the earth is "overpopulated," who believe McDonald's food is toxic and addictive, who think microwave ovens create poisonous food; who think hairspray cans are destroying the Ozone layer, the oceans are dying, the last tree will soon disappear from the earth, that GM foods pose an apocalyptic science fiction danger to the environment, that it is far better to let upwards of some 96,000,000 people in the Third World die, since 1973, of an easily preventable disease than to spray clothing and houses with an otherwise harmless substance known as DDT, and that we can dismantle our carbon based economy and run it, at present or higher levels of NIMBY affluence with wind, solar, and biomass.

While the Tea Party still is, despite Leftist blogger conspiratorial fulminations to the contrary, a grassroots, broad based uprising of "the people" (the kind the Left has long wished it could actually create but never can), who, less the hypocritical posturing about the pipline protesters, is actually behind them? That's right, the entire cultural and political Left, headed by its most extreme, outer fringes. Bill McKibbon, James Hansen, MoveOn.org, Rainforest Action Network, anti-capitalist (except for herself) eastern Ruling Class leftist author Naomi Klein, Natural Resources Defense Council, the Sierra Club, the Environmental Defense Fund, the National Wildlife Federation, Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth, and the notorious Union of Concerned Scientists In other words, the far, outer fringes of discourse regarding these issues, among which are the richest and most politically powerful radical watermelon environmental groups in the world, put together a protest over the Internet and through direct mailings. When leftists, neo-Maxists, neo-communists, and militant neo-primitivist ideologues put together such an event, its legitimate and indicative of "democracy in action." When conservatives do it, Chomskiesque conspiracy theories begin to fly.

Its just the same old garden variety anti-intellectualism and hypocrisy of which the Left is, by definition, made. More ideologically tightly wound Astro Turf masquerading as broad based Tea Party grassroots organizing.

Now, the Tea Party stands for sympathy for the very things it began in protest of - sympathy for a Wall Street that invented monopoly money schemes like CDO's and default swaps that exacerbated the damage of the housing bubble collapse, sympathy for the banks that viewed the government organizations like Freddy and Fanny as a safety net allowing them to gamble with no risk while every American home owner has lost a significant amount of wealth represented by the value of their homes, sympathy for rapidly rising unregulated health care costs bore by American companies and their employees at the expense of insurance company profits, sympathy for the guys paying for the message.


You're so completely out of the loop intellectually regarding either the conservative intellectual or grassroots movements, and the attitudes and philosophy of these movements, broadly speaking, regarding the issues you mention, that I highly doubt serious discussion of them with you is possible, at the present time. You've probably got years of serious reading and education in front of you before you'll be able to discuss these concepts substantively. Get away for MoveOn.org. the Daily Kos, the Huffington Post, Rachel Maddow, Democracy Now! and Keith Olbermann, and start doing some serous reading and study, both deep and broad.

You're not a patriot, Droopy. You're a purchased agent of this non-governmental "other" that is very willing to have bought your allegiance at the expense of your love for country.

You're a sell-out, Droops. Own it. You're paying for it already as are we all.


Get rid of the Chomski, Zinn, and Moore and begin moving down the path of a liberal, serious education. I can't possibly take you seriously after the stuff you've posted above.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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_honorentheos
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Re: You say you want a revolution well, you know...

Post by _honorentheos »

Droopy,

I appreciate your concern regarding how well read I may or may not be on the issues pertaining to this discussion.

Since you are an apparent expert on these matters, I'd consider it a privilege if you took on a small task that I have been puzzling over myself.

A couple of posts back you appear to capture your view of what motivates both the liberal and conservative movements as you define them.

What the Left is terrified of, and despises at a deeper level than any single issue, is the free, independent individual grounded in a moral universe of ethical boundaries and thresholds with relation to other individuals and his society, substantially independent of and with few claims upon government, and free to excel, prosper, and "self actualize" (to use Maslow's term) outside the control and herding of the state and of state approved "experts."


With this statement, you suggest that there is an aim founded in freedom that serves as the ideal against which liberal fear and loathing is most fully directed. I find this summary fascinating, really. And I was wondering where and when in human history we saw this ideal in practice. Or something reasonably like it.

Unless, perhaps, you are suggesting you are a progressive painting a picture of a yet unseen ideal Utopian society?

Thanks in advance.

PS - I'd also like to know how old you think baby boomers are, given the number of senior citizens arrested during the Keystone Pipeline protest.

Vielen Dank!
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
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_Droopy
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Re: You say you want a revolution well, you know...

Post by _Droopy »

With this statement, you suggest that there is an aim founded in freedom that serves as the ideal against which liberal fear and loathing is most fully directed. I find this summary fascinating, really. And I was wondering where and when in human history we saw this ideal in practice. Or something reasonably like it.


The nation within which these ideals have been achieved to the greatest degree and broadest application is America. Other nations, of course, have allowed such concepts and institutions to flourish to varying degrees.

Unless, perhaps, you are suggesting you are a progressive painting a picture of a yet unseen ideal Utopian society?


The only societies of which I am away that attempted to create utopian conditions all ended as mass graveyards morally, intellectually, and literally.

PS - I'd also like to know who old you think baby boomers are, given the number of senior citizens arrested during the Keystone Pipeline protest.



Those born roughly between 1946 and 1964. I was among the last of them. The oldest of them hit 60 in 2006, so its no wonder you see some old timers at the protests.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_honorentheos
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Re: You say you want a revolution well, you know...

Post by _honorentheos »

Hi Droppy,

It's nice to see we both share a healthy skepticism of Utopian claims.
Droopy wrote:
With this statement, you suggest that there is an aim founded in freedom that serves as the ideal against which liberal fear and loathing is most fully directed. I find this summary fascinating, really. And I was wondering where and when in human history we saw this ideal in practice. Or something reasonably like it.


The nation within which these ideals have been achieved to the greatest degree and broadest application is America. Other nations, of course, have allowed such concepts and institutions to flourish to varying degrees.


Ok. I'll go along with you on this ride because I also happen to think you're right.

Given the breadth and depth of your education on the subject, I'm sure you could teach me a thing or two about the formation of the Constitution and the evolution of our "free society". I'm sure you know the subject of your statement formed the battleground for an intense, historic dialog between the founding fathers over the role of government as well as the extent that it was necessary.

So, perhaps I could impose further on you for a synopsis of the argument of Federalist #10 when placed next to #51 and how your view fits in there? I'd give it a go, but I feel compelled to yield the stage in the presence of a master.

oh -
PS - I'd also like to know who old you think baby boomers are, given the number of senior citizens arrested during the Keystone Pipeline protest.



Those born roughly between 1946 and 1964. I was among the last of them. The oldest of them hit 60 in 2006, so its no wonder you see some old timers at the protests.


84 is the new 60


He's not an exception, either.

And watching Americans being hog-tied like in this video gives me new insight into your statement above regarding the "herding of the state".
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Droopy
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Re: You say you want a revolution well, you know...

Post by _Droopy »

And watching Americans being hog-tied like in this video gives me new insight into your statement above regarding the "herding of the state".


Funny, I saw no one "hog-tied," nor did I see any "herding of the state." I saw protesters being told that some of them were in violation of park rules. They choose to ignore the municipal laws of Washington D.C., and some were arrested.

Move along...nothing to see here.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
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Re: You say you want a revolution well, you know...

Post by _Droopy »

84 is the new 60

He's not an exception, either.


Regardless, this website and the quotations sourced on it are an exceptional textbook example of precisely the histrionic irrationality, tendentiousness, and runaway groupthink that embody the essence of the environmental movement.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
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