Mormons - more persecutors than persecuted

[_jon]

I don't really agree with the premise of the thread.

"Mormons can't claim persecution unless and until the historical body count stacks up in their favour"

I think that perhaps Mormon feelings of persecution are self inflicted.
I mean by that, Mormonism has a vocal and active approach to telling all that will listen that they have the truth, the only group that does.
And they truly believe it and find it hard to accept when people dispute that or even disprove that. That's when they claim persecution. I also think that most Mormons don't feel persecuted, it's just the vocal few who live in the world of apologia or PR that perpetuate that myth.

[_Buffalo]

Oh brother, so because a relatively few Mormons killed people 160 years ago that means people like Joseph Smith's twins who died as a result of being exposed when Joseph Smith was attacked in Ohio, tarred and feathered, don't get to be considered a persecuted two? Or that Joseph Smith can't be considered persecuted for his beliefs for being tarred and feathered because people after his death who called themselves Mormons, perhaps, killed a bundle of innocent people?

My goodness, Buffalo, the lanks you will go in order to complain about Mormons or Mormonism...

Oh brother, because a relatively few "gentiles" tarred and feathered Joseph Smith (most likely for his indecent proposal to the sister of one of the Mob), that means gentiles are persecutors? And because of that, you minimize the deaths of the Fancher party?

My goodness, Stem, the "lanks" you will go in order to complain about the Gentiles...

[_Buffalo]

I don't really agree with the premise of the thread.

"Mormons can't claim persecution unless and until the historical body count stacks up in their favour"

I think that perhaps Mormon feelings of persecution are self inflicted.
I mean by that, Mormonism has a vocal and active approach to telling all that will listen that they have the truth, the only group that does.
And they truly believe it and find it hard to accept when people dispute that or even disprove that. That's when they claim persecution. I also think that most Mormons don't feel persecuted, it's just the vocal few who live in the world of apologia or PR that perpetuate that myth.

I remember in my orthoMo days feeling like we were very persecuted. It was hammered into me nearly every Sunday.

[_stemelbow]

As usual, stem, you prevaricate until terms become meaningless. "Persecuted" means something - and that something isn't a powerful, violent group that occasionally gets a little bit of taunting.

Buffalo, i don't know if you can get any of your partners to agree with you here. Are Mormons violent because some Mormons 160 years ago killed a group of people? in your eyes, yes. And somehow in your eyes a Mormon can't claim to be persecuted for any reason because these other Mormons who are long gone killed people. This, of course, has nothing to do with whether Mormons as a group are generally persecuted or not, of course.

[_stemelbow]

Oh brother, because a relatively few "gentiles" tarred and feathered Joseph Smith (most likely for his indecent proposal to the sister of one of the Mob), that means gentiles are persecutors?

What are you talking about? You have totally misconstrued my point. Obviously the mob that tarred and feathered Joseph were persecutors. That does not mean "gentiles are persecutors".

And because of that, you minimize the deaths of the Fancher party?

oh boy...this is ridiculous.

My goodness, Stem, the "lanks" you will go in order to complain about the Gentiles...

I haven't complained about anybody. Interesting you see it that way, though.

pep pep...lanks. What was I thinking?

[_stemelbow]

I don't really agree with the premise of the thread.

"Mormons can't claim persecution unless and until the historical body count stacks up in their favour"

I think that perhaps Mormon feelings of persecution are self inflicted.

That's a pretty universal claim there, jon. And what if Mormons, like me, don't really feel persecuted at all? Pretty much renders your silly claim moot, no?

I mean by that, Mormonism has a vocal and active approach to telling all that will listen that they have the truth, the only group that does.
And they truly believe it and find it hard to accept when people dispute that or even disprove that. That's when they claim persecution. I also think that most Mormons don't feel persecuted, it's just the vocal few who live in the world of apologia or PR that perpetuate that myth.

Then why did you claim Mormons claim persecution? I think if you can see clearly at all, you'll see there are segments of every group who think they are persecuted to some extent. Any Mormons claim of persecution is no different from that of a mainstream Christians claim, a buddhist's claim, nor an atheist's claim.

To make "claiming persecution" a Mormon thing, or to spin it that way at all is just silliness.

[Guest]

Stemelbow said:

Its time to realize that you can't define a group by the actions of people long gone. Doing as you have done would be bigotry, of course.

Why don't you work with some of your fellow Mormons to overcome such thinking, rather than piously just saying it?

Such an effort might just get you ex'd, according to my experience. It is in opposition to Mormon doctrine #121..

[_jon]

Stem, read the last line of the last paragraph where you quoted me.
I think it makes your dispute of my comments...errr...well...moot.

[_stemelbow]

Stemelbow said:
Why don't you work with some of your fellow Mormons to overcome such thinking, rather than piously just saying it?

Such an effort might just get you ex'd, according to my experience.

What are you saying? I don't see such bigotry in Mormonism, per se. Surely there could be Mormons out there who think some guy who killed a Mormon in 1840 is somehow representative of other non-Mormons, but I just plain haven't seen it. You do realize that Buffalo's point is pretty much that--that since Mormons killed non-mormons in 1857, that means a persecuted Mormon can't really claim to be persecuted, right?

[_Buffalo]

And of course, Mormons are still busy persecuting other groups - just not with violence. Their current targets are women and gays.

In all fairness, this is equally true of most Christian groups in general. They are also more persecutors than persecuted.