Cult is a four letter word...

[_sock puppet]

We cannot expect that Sandra Tanner ever had a kind feeling towards Joseph Smith. She can only speak evil of him. I can only speak good of him. Helping to fulfill the prophecy of Moroni.

Nightlion, can you not be objective about JSJr's strengths and weaknesses?

[_Doctor Scratch]

I'm personally against labeling the LDS Church a "cult." Maklelan is right: sociologists of religion would characterize it as a "New Religious Movement." That said, I think Sock Puppet is onto something interesting when he wonders aloud what it is that causes TBMs to "bristle" as having the Church called a "cult." On the one hand, as Mak points out, there is this association with dangerous organizations like the Branch Davidians, or the Manson Family, etc. On the other hand, as Sock showed, there is an element in the definition of "cult" that cuts to the heart of an aspect of cultural Mormonism, which is the belief that loyal LDS are "different," more special, "elect," etc.

Which is found in virtually all Evangelical traditions, and especially in Calvinism, which holds that you have no choice and are either elect or not. Are all Calvinists cultists?

As I said--I'm personally against the use of the label "cult."

This, of course, leads back into the way that sociologists define and categorize "New Religious Movements." I believe it was David Bromley--the scholar that juliann famously mis-used--who said that a New Religious Movement (NRM) was more likely to be seen as "cult-like" the further apart it was from the mainstream.

But the mainstream of the Evangelical movement is more elitist than Mormonism. This criterion undermines your point.

I didn't say anything about "elitism." And I'm not convinced simply on the basis of your say-so that the Evangelical movement is "more elitist" than Mormonism.

So, really, Mormonism is in a bind here: the more distinctive and "special" it is, the more likely it will be viewed as a "cult."

And hypocritically so. Thus the annoyance.

I don't really see how it's "hypocritical" from a Soc. of Religion standpoint. It is what it is. You can split hairs with the taxonomy and means of classification, I suppose, but nevertheless--it is what it is.

But I'm sensing that what you're complaining about is the notion of other religious groups labeling the LDS Church a "cult"? And that you think this is hypocritical, since, in your eyes, these groups share the same "cult"-like characteristics?

The more in blends in with White Bread America, the less distinct and "elect" it will be. When you get right down to it, then, the pain at getting called a "cult" is really just the pain of being forced to compromise.

No, the problem in this instance does not lie with a Latter-day Saint desire to be "peculiar."

Sure it does. Swap in the term "esoteric" for "peculiar" and you're using terminology straight out of the sociology of religion lexicon.

[_Nightlion]

We cannot expect that Sandra Tanner ever had a kind feeling towards Joseph Smith. She can only speak evil of him. I can only speak good of him. Helping to fulfill the prophecy of Moroni.

Nightlion, can you not be objective about JSJr's strengths and weaknesses?

Definitely not. I remain overawed at such a singular farm lad who had faith enough to call down the power of the gospel of Jesus Christ when fourteen. Bitter women who were seduced over to the dark side have spoken ill of Joseph. Those who were contemporary with him and many since. The polygamist over-justified themselves with rakish abandon concerning the character of Joseph Smith. Both Joseph and Hyrum orchestrated their suicide by mob so NOT to have to live the principle of polygamy beyond the token ceremony of sealings, knowing that God intended that it would estrange the LDS further from the world and preserve the seed of the Restoration until a better day. And that consequence was the result of Joseph's own failure to see that the REAL gospel took hold among the Gentiles. An impossible task indeed. That is what I believe of him.

I feel like shouting alleluia all the time that I stood in the legacy of a true man of God. (Much like Brigham also said)