John Dehlin's poll -- data on why you no longer believe

[_floatingboy]

I put "How much would you say you know about the key issues people have with the Church?"

[_Infymus]

When is John going to realize that the Mormon church isn't going to change for anyone? It exists to serve itself.

They just need to excommunicate him and be done with it and John needs to get on with his life without Mormonism.

[_NorthboundZax]

That was kind of fun.

My final comment/question was:
The Doctrine & Covenants explicitly states that the word of wisdom is not a commandment. Despite no direct revelation overturning that, it is treated as a defining commandment of the religion - in essence a revelation overturned by leadership assertion. When other churches treat scripture that way, we call that apostate. Why should we view view the church's stance, contrary to explicit scripture, as anything else?

[_Buffalo]

That was kind of fun.

My final comment/question was:
The Doctrine & Covenants explicitly states that the word of wisdom is not a commandment. Despite no direct revelation overturning that, it is treated as a defining commandment of the religion - in essence a revelation overturned by leadership assertion. When other churches treat scripture that way, we call that apostate. Why should we view view the church's stance, contrary to explicit scripture, as anything else?

Nice!

I had a huge long spiel, didn't think to C&P

[_Sethbag]

I filled out the survey. I hope to hear what comes of it.

The problem, as I see it, is that the church really isn't true. All of the problems with the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham, the First Vision, failed scriptural writings about the history of the world (Garden of Eden, Flood of Noah) that are now discredited, etc. are really all just fruits. or consequences of this.

The church covers a lot of this stuff up in order to protect members' fragile testimonies. The church apparently reckons that they'll lose more testimonies if they're upfront about this stuff than they'll lose if they cover it up and some small number of members are exposed to it anyhow. I think they're probably right in this calculation.

[_Simon Southerton]

Why would an organisation that has a direct line to God need to utilise a survey by John Dehlin to find out what people think about them?

If the Church was serious about members views, there would be a system in place for the Leaders to gain regular feedback.

I think this is driven largely by John, and I think what he is trying to achieve is useful. A couple of years ago I found John really hard to take. He seemed desperate to find a way to believe so he could stay in the community. His views have shifted considerably over the years and they are not in the direction a lot of Mormons would like. Now he seems to be trying to get the higher ups to face the fact that there are historical problems and that families are being torn apart because many are struggling with them. Having someone like him get the ear of a senior leader has to be good.

by the way, when I tried to post about John's poll on RFM the admin pulled it. I've had a few posts pulled in the past over there. RFM is turning into a personal message board for the admin.

[_Tchild]

Thanks for the link The Dude. I took the poll for curiosities sake.

I don't believe for so many reasons that a poll just cannot capture.

The best part is that I am wholly uninterested and completely apathetic to trying to change, persuade or cajole LDS leaders to seeing my point of view. Why should I, I am on a different path and am interested in my own spiritual/mental progress and am not concerned with how others opine of my life journey.

Imagine talking with old elementary school era friends about the whys and hows of no longer believing and wanting to be part of a "tree fort club" that was important at age 9-11 but is now seen as childish and long past importance.

Good bye Mormonism.

[_mms]

Took it.

[_The Dude]

Imagine talking with old elementary school era friends about the whys and hows of no longer believing and wanting to be part of a "tree fort club" that was important at age 9-11 but is now seen as childish and long past importance.

Good bye Mormonism.

No kidding.

Which of these were major factors in your disaffection with the tree fort club:
Another club member offended you
You wanted to hold hands with a girl (against club rules)
The swing set club lured you away with cupcakes and punch
You figured out the club president's card tricks were not real magic

Is there anything the tree fort club could do to get you back?