Racist Teachings Make me Sick

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_why me
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Re: Racist Teachings Make me Sick

Post by _why me »

sock puppet wrote:why me, why don't you attend all LDS meetings in the LDS ward in which you live, for an entire month, and come back and report what you've learned about what is taught, what is not, what the LDS culture of that ward is, etc? You might learn something.


The proof was in the manual. Like I said previously there was nothing in the manual about what Just Me op was about. Now if someone made a stupid comment, well, one can raise their hand and counter it. And maybe make a difference in someone else's life. But just me just sat there like a ripe tomato and said nothing except on this board where she is trying to create a stink.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Darth J
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Re: Racist Teachings Make me Sick

Post by _Darth J »

why me wrote:
Darth J wrote:The Lord said that when His coming was near, the Lamanites would become a righteous and respected people. He said, “Before the great day of the Lord shall come, … the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose” (D&C 49:24). Great numbers of Lehi’s descendants are now receiving the blessings of the gospel.

Meaning that they are not a righteous and respected people beforehand. You don't "become" something that you already are.

And this is standard christianity. One must be saved in Christ. No problem there. And they weren't respected when the D and C verse was written. In fact, the indians continued to be driven westward until they ended up on a reservation or killed. No problem there.


Let me help you out a little, idiot. This isn't a generalized message of Christianity. If it were, promises to "the Lamanites" specifically would be meaningless. The promises to "the Lamanites" on the first page of the Book of Mormon would likewise be meaningless. When you say that an (imaginary) ethnic group is fallen and degenerate, but that they as an ethnicity will overcome that status by accepting the LDS Church, yes, it is racism. The manual, the Book of Mormon, and the D&C teach that an ethnic group is decadent and needs to be redeemed, in a way that is not analogous to the redemption of an individual sinner in Christianity.

And stop pontificating on what it is like to be in an LDS Sunday school class, as if you have been to one in the last three decades.
_Darth J
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Re: Racist Teachings Make me Sick

Post by _Darth J »

why me wrote:In fact, the indians continued to be driven westward until they ended up on a reservation or killed. No problem there.


Go ahead and tell us how it is not racist to say that this happened because a race of people was being punished by God, and the way out was to become Mormons.

You are such a [deleted], Why Me.
_sock puppet
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Re: Racist Teachings Make me Sick

Post by _sock puppet »

why me wrote:
sock puppet wrote:why me, why don't you attend all LDS meetings in the LDS ward in which you live, for an entire month, and come back and report what you've learned about what is taught, what is not, what the LDS culture of that ward is, etc? You might learn something.


The proof was in the manual. Like I said previously there was nothing in the manual about what Just Me op was about. Now if someone made a stupid comment, well, one can raise their hand and counter it. And maybe make a difference in someone else's life. But just me just sat there like a ripe tomato and said nothing except on this board where she is trying to create a stink.

What the hell does that have to do with or how the hell does that in anyway respond to my suggestion?

If Mormonism is so damn great, go attend for a month. If you find it too odious to attend for even just one month, then why do you attempt to defend it so vigorously and from such a perspective of ignorance as to what it is like to experience the Mormon Church?
_beefcalf
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Re: Racist Teachings Make me Sick

Post by _beefcalf »

why me wrote:
sock puppet wrote:why me, why don't you attend all LDS meetings in the LDS ward in which you live, for an entire month, and come back and report what you've learned about what is taught, what is not, what the LDS culture of that ward is, etc? You might learn something.


The proof was in the manual. Like I said previously there was nothing in the manual about what Just Me op was about. Now if someone made a stupid comment, well, one can raise their hand and counter it. And maybe make a difference in someone else's life. But just me just sat there like a ripe tomato and said nothing except on this board where she is trying to create a stink.


It IS in the manual. The current Aaronic priesthood manual specifically instructs young men that they should only marry a woman who is the same races as they are.

This is the very definition of racist. And it is completely in keeping with the rampant racism found in the Book of Mormon.
eschew obfuscation

"I'll let you believers in on a little secret: not only is the LDS church not really true, it's obviously not true." -Sethbag
_Shulem
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Re: Racist Teachings Make me Sick

Post by _Shulem »

why me wrote:
sock puppet wrote:

why me is proof that Mormonism is more palatable, actually a blank canvas on which you can draw anything, if you simply do not attend its meetings.


Well, you see, here we have Jersey Girl actually believing that in the manual or in official LDS teaching that racism is being taught. No such thing is happening. And Just Me just proved it. The gospel makes people blossom like a rose: something beautiful. No racism there.

What people say is what people say. But one can engage people when they say it and make a comment. And that was my point.


Why Me,

You've lost the argument, totally. If you don't believe me then step into a time machine and go back and tell President Brigham Young to stop teaching racist things to the saints. Go back and correct your dead prophet.

Then come back and report.

Paul O
_Blixa
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Re: Racist Teachings Make me Sick

Post by _Blixa »

From the good ol' days of the Lamanite Placement program:

Spencer W. Kimball wrote:The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised (2 Ne. 30:6). In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos; five were darker but equally delightsome. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl—sixteen—sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather. There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.


You've probably seen that part quoted before, but it continues:

The missionaries are having great experiences in proselyting, in teaching, in organizing, in carrying on Primaries, Relief Societies. They direct women in making quilts and towels and pot holders, which they say they can sell faster than they can make them; but always a Relief Society bazaar is in their future plans. They pound up broken pottery and clay to make new pottery. They do beadwork, learn cooking; they are taught first aid, bleeding-stoppage, use of splints, resuscitation, moving the injured; they are taught to speak and to sing. Three lovely Lamanite sisters sang a trio in one of our meetings. Two elders in one area were actually teaching the women how to make diapers.

We find the Indians are learning to be adaptable and resourceful, and from tradition they are coming to truth, from legend to fact, from sand paintings and sings to administration and ordinances.


Wow, these backwards and barbaric tribal women are actually learning how to sing and cook and make diapers! How adaptable! How resourceful!

In case you don't know, whyme, this is the kind of cultural discourse the women justme listened to are drawing on. You can even hear an echo of the last sentence in the "moving from levi's to white collars" metaphor of today.

I doubt many (or any) of the women justme described are conscious racists; they are merely retelling the basic faith promoting stories of LDS Lamanite lore, a lore that is built into the religion via the mythos of the Book of Mormon. While the Lamanite placement program has been discontinued, and Mormon leaders and apologists are delicately reworking the meaning of the term "Lamanite" itself, this lore continues to circulate and probably will continue to unless more drastic changes are made.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Racist Teachings Make me Sick

Post by _Jersey Girl »

why me wrote:Well, you see, here we have Jersey Girl actually believing that in the manual or in official LDS teaching that racism is being taught. No such thing is happening. And Just Me just proved it. The gospel makes people blossom like a rose: something beautiful. No racism there.

What people say is what people say. But one can engage people when they say it and make a comment. And that was my point.


Excuse me. We have Jersey Girl doing WHAT?

Where? No really, show me any post on this entire board that indicates that I believe what you just said.

Or shut up and stop misrepresenting my words.

You choose.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_moksha
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Re: Racist Teachings Make me Sick

Post by _moksha »

just me wrote:So tired of the racism in the church. Members don't even realize that it is racist.

Story told today about a "Lamanite" family (South American) who had 9 children. Well, lo and behold each child born after they joined the church was "lighter" than the last until their youngest was born looking "white."

Those Lamanites are blossoming like the rose. It is visible in their skin pigmentation.

BARF!!!


So was the teller suggesting that the visiting missionaries were doing more that just visiting? Was the last missionary a pale blond by any chance?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_why me
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Re: Racist Teachings Make me Sick

Post by _why me »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Or shut up and stop misrepresenting my words.

You choose.


You seemed to buy into the whole racist thing that Just Me was claiming. I had to debunk her a little and now she has given us context which had nothing to do with her OP. It said no such thing in the manual and it was the opinion of the person making the comment. Now it is true, that we all can censure public comments. But Just me just sat there like a ripe tomoto waiting for the opportunity to post her comments here.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
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