stemelbow wrote:Well if that's your thinking you have a lot of dots to connect, right? I mean to go from Utah's porn problem is because of the church's stance on porn is a tough thing to conclude based on the piece-meal approach you've taken, right? Whose to say any person in Utah has more of an addiction to porn than any non-LDS in another state? Whose to say the people of Utah have more of a problem than people of any state? All we can reasonably conclude is that some study done years ago named Utah as the place that has the most on-line porn purchases than any other state per capita. Porn is accessed freely, and is purchased outside of on-line--just for your reference point.
The church has gone out of its way to make the members of the church believe that porn is a HUGE problem within the church membership.
One of the women in our ward does counseling for the church and did like a counseling mission. She tells us all the time that 70% of LDS married couples are affected by a porn addiction problem. The number seems outrageous to me....but that is a number coming from church leaders on the topic.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
stemelbow wrote:Well if that's your thinking you have a lot of dots to connect, right? I mean to go from Utah's porn problem is because of the church's stance on porn is a tough thing to conclude based on the piece-meal approach you've taken, right? Whose to say any person in Utah has more of an addiction to porn than any non-LDS in another state? Whose to say the people of Utah have more of a problem than people of any state? All we can reasonably conclude is that some study done years ago named Utah as the place that has the most on-line porn purchases than any other state per capita. Porn is accessed freely, and is purchased outside of on-line--just for your reference point.
I believe the word addiction is thrown around WAY too loosely in the LDS church.
When people are told over and over again that they are addicts, they start to act like addicts.... regardless whether they actually are addicts.
Although I do agree with you on connecting the dots. Not long ago, Utah was #1 in bankruptcy filings. Of course this was all due to tithing. I could never quite connect those dots either.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
Scottie wrote:I believe the word addiction is thrown around WAY too loosely in the LDS church.
When people are told over and over again that they are addicts, they start to act like addicts.... regardless whether they actually are addicts.
Although I do agree with you on connecting the dots. Not long ago, Utah was #1 in bankruptcy filings. Of course this was all due to tithing. I could never quite connect those dots either.
I think that is why the church has such inflated numbers of people affected by porn addiction. If looking at it once equals addiction than I guess 70% could be right. But, actually struggling with porn addiction....gotta be much lower.
Oh, and lmao at the bankruptcy sentence. There are certainly lots of things at play.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Scottie wrote: Although I do agree with you on connecting the dots. Not long ago, Utah was #1 in bankruptcy filings. Of course this was all due to tithing. I could never quite connect those dots either.
Yeah, that's another problem the church has really tried to fight, but that also the church has really been the cause of. Depending on your income, tithing can be 60, 70, 80% or more of your net income (after non-discretionary expenses, taxes, etc). It's not 10 percent. Middle and lower class people live and die at the margins. No wonder Utahns are heavily in debt.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
and i'm just going off my one buddies experience that I'm aware of. As it is you can pay for porn more than just paying for it online, as I understand it.
I didn't mention addiction purposefully, because I think the church tends to characterize casual use as addiction, when in reality I think addiction is rare. But it's tough to have addiction without a lot of shame involved as well. Shame perpetuates self-destructive behaviors.
Well you're the expert. I might have rehearsed this story to you before but here goes if not. My brother is a military man. He's been to Iraq (twice) and Afghanistan serving. He's bled with his partners. He's medically worked on them when needed. He's led them. He's done all that and in the process and grown immensly close to them. Tight as brothers, as they say. Likewise his wife has been quite close to their wives and families. While they were in Iraq, the wives all got together. In such a setting the wives all vehemently complained about their husbands' porn addictions at one point. These were out of state non-LDS folks. But every single one of the wives said their husbands had the problem and reported to their wives that its normal and needed for men, or something, even though it made the women feel small unimportant and terrible. They all thought it was disgusting. My brother’s wife just quietly listened, even though she’s normally the leader of the group. They asked her about her feelings and she just said how sad it was to hear their situations, as some of them were in tears, but she didn’t have any problems with it at all. Her husband didn’t in any way patronize the stuff. The women were crushed to hear that. They felt lied to and betrayed by their husbands. So, of course, all the men were confronted, challenged and complained to. What was the men’s response? They went straight to my brother to take it out on him. They were going to beat him senseless. It got all heated and some pushing but it never got to the point they initially intended. All the way to the point of my brother moving and transferring divisions they had a problem with him all because of that. Pretty pathetic stuff that porn.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
just me wrote:The church has gone out of its way to make the members of the church believe that porn is a HUGE problem within the church membership.
News to me. Of course I do admit I've pretty much tuned out porn talk at church or conference or in reading pieces.
One of the women in our ward does counseling for the church and did like a counseling mission. She tells us all the time that 70% of LDS married couples are affected by a porn addiction problem. The number seems outrageous to me....but that is a number coming from church leaders on the topic.
alright.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Scottie wrote:I believe the word addiction is thrown around WAY too loosely in the LDS church.
When people are told over and over again that they are addicts, they start to act like addicts.... regardless whether they actually are addicts.
Is that how alcoholics are created? They are told tehy are addicted because they go drink, or do some drinking binge once?
Although I do agree with you on connecting the dots. Not long ago, Utah was #1 in bankruptcy filings. Of course this was all due to tithing. I could never quite connect those dots either.
I know. I don't get the thinking on some of these things.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Buffalo wrote:Yeah, that's another problem the church has really tried to fight, but that also the church has really been the cause of. Depending on your income, tithing can be 60, 70, 80% or more of your net income (after non-discretionary expenses, taxes, etc). It's not 10 percent. Middle and lower class people live and die at the margins. No wonder Utahns are heavily in debt.
I just live frugally. I admit your numbers aren't far off of what I've experienced in terms of how much tithing and fast offerings come to. We're not in debt though, luckily. The church certainly expects people to live as we do. People just don't do that these days.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
just me wrote:I think that is why the church has such inflated numbers of people affected by porn addiction. If looking at it once equals addiction than I guess 70% could be right. But, actually struggling with porn addiction....gotta be much lower.
Oh, and lmao at the bankruptcy sentence. There are certainly lots of things at play.
I question the 70% figure too. I know you heard it from some random lady in your ward, but can it be confirmed. Not really being in on the know here, that just seems outrageous to me.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Scottie wrote:I believe the word addiction is thrown around WAY too loosely in the LDS church.
When people are told over and over again that they are addicts, they start to act like addicts.... regardless whether they actually are addicts.
Is that how alcoholics are created? They are told tehy are addicted because they go drink, or do some drinking binge once?
Yet another LDS gem. Take 1 drink and suddenly you are an alcoholic.
You do realize that the vast, VAST majority of people can self-regulate their alcohol intake without becoming an alcoholic, right?
More to your point, yes, I believe that if they were told time and time again that they were alcoholics, they would probably start to act like alcoholics.
Now that I think about it, why has a direct question been added to the TR questions? "Do you actively view pornography?" I would think this question we be enough to keep a lot of people from doing it.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo