Who Here Supports and Defends Pornography as Legitimate?

[_Morley]

Is this the working definition of porn you're using, Droopy?

"Pornography is any material depicting or describing the human body or sexual conduct in a way that arouses sexual feelings. It is distributed through many media, including magazines, books, television, movies, music, and the Internet." - from LDS.org

Or did you have another in mind?

You know what throws a wrench in this? There are people who are sexually aroused by dirty tube socks.

Count me in.

[_Kevin Graham]

That's not what drives porn users "underground." What drives porn users underground is the very same dynamic that drives alcoholics and drug users underground: the need to isolate himself within the fantasy world of his high to the greatest degree possible with the least risk of exposure and resistance

.

Obviously, Droopy is speaking from experience. An admitted alcoholic and now porn enthusiast, he is probably one of the most qualified to opine on this subject, second only to Paul Osborne.

But alcohol is a depressant, thus alcoholics tend to head towards an "underground" lifestyle for that reason alone. It is probably why Loran is single, in his fifties and trying so hard to find meaning, identity and relevance in his life with Mormon religion and the Right Wing bloggers. Both provide him a much needed sense of being more special and important than he really is.

My biological father is an alcoholic and so is his wife. But you wouldn't know it unless you stopped by their home any given night uninvited. Every night they're drinking, and that is apparently all they look forward to every day, which means they're intentionally withdrawn from familial activities and such. It is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with some of these people because the alcohol has just killed too many brain cells. Again, droopy is a great example.

But porn? I knew more than a few Mormon couples who enjoyed porn. Keep in mind that the state of Utah (80%+ LDS) has the highest rate of porn consumption in the country. The family that got me into the Church, for example. The parents enjoyed watching classic French porn on occasion. I remember being there when a video tape was delivered to their home, but didn't think much of it until I ended up moving in with a few months later. They didn't have cable TV and the only time the kids could watch television at all was during family night on the weekend when the parents would put in classics like Fiddler on the Roof or The Sound of Music. But when I lived there the couple would have private movie/date night downstairs while the kids were asleep. I saw the return address of the company that mailed in those specially wrapped videos, and the name I forget, but it was clearly an Adult entertainment company.

I also think this is a perfect example of the hypocrisy so many Right Wingers and Libertarians exhibit when the speak of their desire for more liberty and freedom. They claim this but they don't really mean it. If they had the power, they would absolutely deny society the right to producer/consume pornography, perform abortions, engage in whatever type of sex they so choose, be married unless they fit a religiously accepted definition of the term, etc etc etc. They are the fascists pretending to love liberty and freedom, but in reality they are the ones who are trying to suppress unbridled liberty.

Porn became popular in the early 1980's as a response to AIDS.

That's just not true. Porn wasn't popular only in the 80's, it has been popular since it has been in existence. The dissemination of porn became much easier as technology advanced, and that is the case in 90's when porn became a multi-billion dollar industry thanks to the internet. In the 70's it was Super 8 and folks would go to porn theaters. In the 80's the rage was rental videotapes and it could be watched at home.

[_Scottie]

Isn't porn basically the new Rock & Roll or video games?

It's the gateway addiction that leads to all kinds of anti-social behaviors.

Just ask the rapists and child molesters in prison if they watched porn. A very high percentage of them have!! Therefore, the only thing to conclude is that watching porn will turn you into a rapist and/or a child molester!

Just as Rock and Roll turned you into a bad seed, and video games would warp your mind and make you shoot up your school.

[_ajax18]

Yeah this is probably true. They probably look at the guy that can't get any as kind of a loser.

If the man is a loser than why do women care what he views? He's not hurting anyone by viewing pornography. No women are interested in him anyway. How is it then some kind of self destruction?

[_keithb]

It all depends on the type of pornography you're talking about.

To me, this is probably the best answer so far, and about sums up my stance on porn: it depends.

Actually, it depends on a lot of things.

But, my short answer would be that, in general, I don't really have a problem with people either a) viewing pornography or b) making pornography, as long as the pornography in question is between consenting adults and it is safe, sane, and non-exploitative.

Let me explain the last point (non-exploitative) because I might have a different meaning than some people on the board. To me, it's not exploitative to have sex, have sex on camera, or have people pay you to watch you having sex -- as long as you're okay with putting on a show. However, I sometimes feel that pornographers can exploit human misery. It's much the same idea as a person finding a starving homeless man, the person offering the man money, but forcing the man to fish the money out of a toilet instead of just giving it to him. It's a needlessly cruel act because the money could have just been handed to the man instead, and the only reason it wasn't was to increase human suffering.

Also, I am having some trouble understanding the meaning of "support" in the OP. Does Droopy mean "support" philosophically (yes), financially (no), logistically (no), morally (in many but not all cases), with participation (passive not active), or in some other sense?

[_Buffalo]

Is this the working definition of porn you're using, Droopy?

"Pornography is any material depicting or describing the human body or sexual conduct in a way that arouses sexual feelings. It is distributed through many media, including magazines, books, television, movies, music, and the Internet." - from LDS.org

Or did you have another in mind?

Kind of like Eve in the LDS temple film?

[_why me]

Yeah this is probably true. They probably look at the guy that can't get any as kind of a loser.

If the man is a loser than why do women care what he views? He's not hurting anyone by viewing pornography. No women are interested in him anyway. How is it then some kind of self destruction?

If he is married he will most likely be hurting his wife since viewing people having sex and masturbating just may send a signal to the wife that she is not good enough.

[_Fiannan]

As I stated on another thread, I think that pornography is generally negative. People are probably better off without it.

That said, I don't think that porn viewing is even remotely the same as the commission of adultery in its seriousness. Yet, I've met many LDS women who (for whatever reason) DO see them as being EXACTLY the same. I've seen marriages break up over it. I have one female LDS friend who decided to have an affair on her husband in order to "get even" with him over his porn viewing. And yes, to her, there was no difference between her infidelity and his porn viewing.

Porn viewing probably ought to be seen a being a vice of approximately the same degree as drinking coffee or tea. If you villify (intentionally or not) the porn user, you'll drive him underground and present obstacles to the change that he might otherwise seek.

Very well stated, although I might place porn viewing in the same league of seriousness as gossiping.

[_Buffalo]

Isn't porn basically the new Rock & Roll or video games?

It's the gateway addiction that leads to all kinds of anti-social behaviors.

Just ask the rapists and child molesters in prison if they watched porn. A very high percentage of them have!! Therefore, the only thing to conclude is that watching porn will turn you into a rapist and/or a child molester!

Just as Rock and Roll turned you into a bad seed, and video games would warp your mind and make you shoot up your school.

Great point! For a long time the religious right were obsessed with rock n' roll. If you listened to them, you'd think that rock will make you kill your parents and worship Satan. Remember the hysteria about backwards messages? Now that that generation is dying out, most of the religious right are people who grew up listening to rock, so there isn't the cultural barrier that makes them afraid of it. The original anti-rock crusaders grew up with the Glenn Miller Orchestra, and anything that didn't sound like that must have been Satanic.

A few sad sacks still try to beat the anti-rock hysteria drum (in 3/4 time, just in case), but their time is over.

http://www.av1611.org/rock.html

The phenomenon is called moral panic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

[_ajax18]

If he is married he will most likely be hurting his wife since viewing people having sex and masturbating just may send a signal to the wife that she is not good enough.

I understand if a man is married. But what if he isn't. What if he has no hope of marrying in the near future. My question is, "What if he really is a loser?" What if no women are interested? Who cares if he looks at porn and masturbates? Who is he hurting? He's just relieving his own burden and making his own life a little more bearable.