Sexual sin

[_SteelHead]

Feel free to explain your vote.

[_Fiannan]

From my understanding, withholding sex is grounds for a cancellation of temple sealing while looking at porn is not.

[Guest]

A few of my quick ramblings on the subject.
Both are generally an act of selfishness.
Neither is strictly a violation of "the law of chastity".
One is a violation of my perception of marriage covenants, be they civil, temple, other religion or what not.
One has become a get out of jail free card.
One is addressed multiple times every conference, the other I have never once heard addressed.

I think the church does a miserable job of preparing youth for the sexual reality of marriage. Be it Peter Priesthood crazies who believe; that in order to overcome the natural man and their carnal nature, that sex is only for procreation, only in the missionary position and with garments on. To young women who through repeated years of negative reinforcement, poor teaching, modesty lessons to a ridiculous degree, etc. believe sex is icky, or who use it as a weapon to manipulate the whole treatment of the issue in the church generates problems.

Many young people have no ideas of the basic mechanics. Most do not even have frank discussions about their expectations in regards to sex (what is ok with them, frequency, expectations etc) before they get married, a double whammy in the face of strict premarital abstinence. Resulting in a lot of sexual incompatibility. What should be a joy becomes a stumbling block.

[Guest]

From my understanding, withholding sex is grounds for a cancellation of temple sealing while looking at porn is not.

Interesting, and yet the evils of porn are repeatedly stressed, but when was the last time your heard about the evils of sexual refusal?

Either can be a cause and the other resultant effect, but I believe refusal will lead to a spouse looking for a non affair outlet, more often than the converse.

I broached the topic because a married couple that are good friends with my wife and I are going through a divorce. He is one of those few cases in which I believe the person to be truly addicted to porn ( I do not view any porn use as porn addiction as many in our culture do, and view romance novels, the twilight series etc on par with most other forms of smut), but I also know that they married very young, had 4 kids very quickly, lots of stresses, and she views him as repugnant....... So there are many issues, but I have to wonder which came first.

Yet for the church I am sure they are just another case of porn destroying a marriage when there are most likely a broader range of deep underlying causes.

[_Some Schmo]

Don't really like the word 'sin' in this poll (or even generally). A sin makes it sound like there's a god who gives a crap, and that's just ridiculous.

But clearly, withholding sex is worse than porn usage. There's nothing wrong with indulging a fantasy occasionally. It's completely stupid and unrealistic to expect your spouse to never find anyone else in the world attractive as soon as you tie the knot. As long as there's no touching others to honor of your marital commitment, I don't see the problem.

But if you want a marriage to really fester and become unhealthy, just stop being willing to have sex.

[_SteelHead]

Schmo, I agree but was trying to crouch it in vernacular common to the LDS culture.

[_just me]

There are, unfortunatly, many reason a marriage may become sexless. One being for health reasons outside the control of either partner. Even with health issues, the couple can often get a little creative and still find fulfillment.

But, we all know that lots of marriages become sexless and it has nothing to do with health.

steelhead, I thought you brought up some good points in your ramble.

Many young people have no ideas of the basic mechanics. Most do not even have frank discussions about their expectations in regards to sex (what is ok with them, frequency, expectations etc) before they get married, a double whammy I'm the face of strict premarital abstinence. Resulting in a lot of sexual incompatibility. What should be a joy becomes a stumbling block.

How can someone even be capable of knowing their sexual expectations and interests when they have never even had sex? There are women who have never even had an orgasm when they get married!

Far more tragic than a lack of understanding the basics of sex is a complete lack of understanding how male and female sexuality even work. Let alone the fact many LDS couples who get married are not compatible, sexually or otherwise, to begin with.

I could go on for pages about this topic.

Neither are a sin. I don't believe in the concept. Besides, telling someone they are sinning is a motivation of fear. You don't really want someone to have sex with you because they are afraid of displeasing God. I hope. Rather than labeling porn usage a sin it is far more helpful to find out why the individual is seeking it out. Same with a sexless marriage, far better to learn how to turn on the heat.

It is very easy to look at what the other person needs to change. However, we can change our own actions and often that leads to a change in how the other person reacts to us.

People get lazy after they get married. Or they get busy with all the other aspects of life-kids, jobs, callings, etc. It's far too easy to neglect the marital relationship and the needs of our spouse.

[_just me]

Oh, I meant to say that I know there is the occasional reference to the obligation of having sex with your husband in Relief Society. It won't be often, and it won't happen in every area, but it has and does happen.

I also know women who have been basically blamed for their husband's "porn addiction." Again, it isn't all the time or even often, but it is there in the background.

It's usually intimated rather than flat out said.

[Guest]

Yep, everyone should take ownership of their own doings be it porn usage or refusal and not blame it on another.

But the whole manner in which the church addresses sexuality is broken and creates strife. Wifes loading up the kids and running to their mothers because they caught their husbands flipping through the VS catalog while expecting him to understand her Team Jacob crush is nutz.

But again why the huge emphasis on porn in GC qnd never any reference to refusal if refusal is more damaging to the relationship? Is porn more common? Ancedotadly, I would guess thery are are fairly even in numbers.

[_SteelHead]

I think instead of all the energy spent decrying porn, a much more positive result would be achieved by creating programs that teach healthy sexuality. How to have honest conversations on wants, desires, what is considered appropiate, frequencies and what not before marriage.

Such thought though would require a mindset change that sex is a legitimate desire and (generally) essential to a functioning marriage from to be endured and only for procreation ( a mindset not uncommon LDS leaders a few years back).

As an increasingly deist leaning, very nom guy, why am I bothering.

And please excuse my spelling and grammar shortcomings, between small screen, keyboard and autocorrect I am surprised when my ramblings are even coherent.