stemelbow wrote: That's some more goofy thinking, Rambo. (meant playfully of course). I tend to think there are some here who seem to reach the pinnacle of full of him/herself. I won't name names though. I'm just saying how ironic that comment sounds.
How is that goofy thinking?
Are you saying I am full of myself. Sure I may be at times but who isn't. I really can't compare to Jesus though.
Hum.. maybe I should follow the example of Jesus and be more full of myself.
Buffalo wrote:When it first occurred to me that there might not be any god, it was a dreadful experience for me too. You get over it.
That's kind of how we are. We get over things after they wear on us for a while. That certainly doens't help your cause though.
It only seems dreadful when you've spent your life with the expectation of a paternal god and an afterlife. It's very disappointing at first. But reality actually isn't so bad. In some ways it's a lot better.
I actually wish it was better. It'd be much easier for me.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Buffalo wrote:in my opinion atheism makes you appreciate your life better, and live life more fully. Instead of doing everything in the context of preparing for an imaginary afterlife, you have the perspective of every moment in your life being precious and irreplacable. It's simple economics - scarcity drives up value. If you think you're going to live forever, each day you have is less valuable because there is an infinite number of them. Just like a dollar is less important to a millionaire (or someone who thinks he's a millionaire) than to a homeless man.
that's far too much black and white thinking for me. There are far too many individuals in the world to be able to make the claims you made--afterall if atheism makes peole appreciate life better and live more fully what of all the non-atheists who live life more fully and appreciate life better than many an atheist? This is another case that you've presented when you link dots without realizing the dots are separated by a million miles and a billion dots that are left unlinked. Its all just too convenient if you ask me.
You also appreciate your family more, for the same reason - you have less time with them. At least, it made ME appreciate them more.
I definitely could see how one individual could perceive that a change in their paradigm can lead them to assume that the new paradigm is the cause of their ability to appreciate more, or find more value and reason in life. But again...too many dots left unlinked in such a black and white mode of thinking. There's far more grey area when you realize you don't have anything more than I do, nor I than some random guy in Mozambique, nor than some lady in Nepal, nor some child in North Korea. Far too many individuals, circumstances and variety to think your view as being all that conclusive, or all that meaninful.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Rambo wrote:This is what I noticed as well Buffalo. When I use to believe in a after life I wouldn't understand the people that would say life is short. I would always think to myself so what if life is short, we are going to live forever. I had no fear of death either cause if I died young then I would still be alive in the next life so it wouldn't really matter. Sure I would miss my family but I would see them shortly. Seriously what is 80 years when you have all eternity. Thinking you live forever really diminished the value of this life in my opinion.
That might be the case for you, but you are just one person. What if there is a Mormon who values life far more than you? Well, then its not the paradigm that causes the valuing life, but something else. Perhaps one's attitude. Perhaps one's motivation. There are many things involved. You guys exhibit far too black and white htinking for my taste.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Are you saying I am full of myself. Sure I may be at times but who isn't. I really can't compare to Jesus though.
But did you sacrifice and die so that all mankind can live and be at peace and find hope? I odn't see how He's full of Himself, but you aren't--and by you I don't mean to say you are any more full of yourself than I am of myself. I'm just saying he descended below us all--thereby ensuring He's not full of Himself but full of others.
Hum.. maybe I should follow the example of Jesus and be more full of myself.
In your goofy view of what's full of yourself, it might be a good thing.(;
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Buffalo wrote:in my opinion atheism makes you appreciate your life better, and live life more fully. Instead of doing everything in the context of preparing for an imaginary afterlife, you have the perspective of every moment in your life being precious and irreplacable. It's simple economics - scarcity drives up value. If you think you're going to live forever, each day you have is less valuable because there is an infinite number of them. Just like a dollar is less important to a millionaire (or someone who thinks he's a millionaire) than to a homeless man.
that's far too much black and white thinking for me. There are far too many individuals in the world to be able to make the claims you made--afterall if atheism makes peole appreciate life better and live more fully what of all the non-atheists who live life more fully and appreciate life better than many an atheist? This is another case that you've presented when you link dots without realizing the dots are separated by a million miles and a billion dots that are left unlinked. Its all just too convenient if you ask me.
You also appreciate your family more, for the same reason - you have less time with them. At least, it made ME appreciate them more.
I definitely could see how one individual could perceive that a change in their paradigm can lead them to assume that the new paradigm is the cause of their ability to appreciate more, or find more value and reason in life. But again...too many dots left unlinked in such a black and white mode of thinking. There's far more grey area when you realize you don't have anything more than I do, nor I than some random guy in Mozambique, nor than some lady in Nepal, nor some child in North Korea. Far too many individuals, circumstances and variety to think your view as being all that conclusive, or all that meaninful.
I will give you that for someone with a really terrible life, theism probably makes their life better. When reality sucks, it's nice to live in a fantasy world. It helps give you a positive attitude.
Maybe that's why you see more atheists among the educated and upper income (not that I'm upper income). They don't need a fantasy world to distract them from a harsh reality. If you've served a mission you'll remember how much more open the poor and downtrodden are to the message of Mormonism.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Buffalo wrote:I'm happier now than when I was a believer. Does that help?
it may help you. But what of the LDS person who was once an atheist and is happier as LDS now? You're thinking too black and white cause and effect. There's no way to prove that atheism is better basedon how happy Buffalo is.
stemelbow wrote:You can't know until you've been an atheist. It IS better.
Whatever.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
But did you sacrifice and die so that all mankind can live and be at peace and find hope? I odn't see how He's full of Himself, but you aren't--and by you I don't mean to say you are any more full of yourself than I am of myself. I'm just saying he descended below us all--thereby ensuring He's not full of Himself but full of others.
In your goofy view of what's full of yourself, it might be a good thing.(;
From a historical perspective, Jesus' death was not intentional. He fancied himself the Messiah, which was NEVER supposed to be a person who was either supernatural (son of God) or a person who would be sacrificed for the sins of the world. That was the post hoc rationalization when Jesus was unexpectedly crucified. He wasn't supposed to die.
Look at it from his perspective - if Jesus was just a regular guy, then he really WAS full of himself (assuming he really made those statements about himself - it's impossible to know). And from your perspective -if Jesus was the son of god, he wasn't full of himself. There, that's wasn't so hard.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Buffalo wrote:I'm happier now than when I was a believer. Does that help?
it may help you. But what of the LDS person who was once an atheist and is happier as LDS now? You're thinking too black and white cause and effect. There's no way to prove that atheism is better basedon how happy Buffalo is.
stemelbow wrote:You can't know until you've been an atheist. It IS better.
Whatever.
Black and white? Stem, I'm just trying to share what happened with me. You're the one saying that atheism is such a dreadful thing.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.