The Infinite atonement--no not the book

[_stemelbow]

I will give you that for someone with a really terrible life, theism probably makes their life better. When reality sucks, it's nice to live in a fantasy world. It helps give you a positive attitude.

Wow, buffalo. So if people have terrible lives (whatever that means) they are better off just believing in yoru view? What if someone doesn' thave a terrible life? Is it better for that individual to not believe? And, does this line of thinking you got going here assume that all believers have terrible lives as a given? I must say your comments here aren't really helping the cause of atheism in my view.

Maybe that's why you see more atheists among the educated and upper income (not that I'm upper income). They don't need a fantasy world to distract them from a harsh reality.

um...this seems to assume a lot. But we'll go with it. The atheists who are well educated and have an upper income need the fantasy world of star treck, and battle star gallactica. But the believers who are well educated and have an upper income need a fantasy world to distract them. The lower income and less educated atheists don't need the distraction but the religious in the same or similar category need the distraction and therefore the one group is more happy?

If you've served a mission you'll remember how much more open the poor and downtrodden are to the message of Mormonism.

sadly ,you explanation of why that is doesn't quite make sense, nor does it seem to fit in with reality...sound like fantasy is distracting you(;

[_stemelbow]

From a historical perspective, Jesus' death was not intentional. He fancied himself the Messiah, which was NEVER supposed to be a person who was either supernatural (son of God) or a person who would be sacrificed for the sins of the world. That was the post hoc rationalization when Jesus was unexpectedly crucified. He wasn't supposed to die.

Look at it from his perspective - if Jesus was just a regular guy, then he really WAS full of himself (assuming he really made those statements about himself - it's impossible to know). And from your perspective -if Jesus was the son of god, he wasn't full of himself. There, that's wasn't so hard.

Its easy to assume these things though, Buffalo. You're not right just because you say you are. If Jesus was a regular guy then my beliefs are wrong. yeah...so? I don't think He was just some regular guy.

[_stemelbow]

Black and white? Stem, I'm just trying to share what happened with me. You're the one saying that atheism is such a dreadful thing.

I said atheism on the grounds I listed seems far more dreadful. You shared what happened to you and expanded that to mean your conclusion is that atheism makes people value life more than believers in general. I don't know if you connected any dots. It appears you just favor it due to bias, personal bias.

[_Buffalo]

Its easy to assume these things though, Buffalo. You're not right just because you say you are. If Jesus was a regular guy then my beliefs are wrong. yeah...so? I don't think He was just some regular guy.

I didn't say I was right because I say I am. However, my position is the scholarly take, and yours is the faithful take on the issue. It is the faithful side that is always laden with the greatest number of unsupported assumptions.

In any case, I was just trying to help you see things from someone else's perspective. I wasn't trying to change your mind.

[_Buffalo]

Black and white? Stem, I'm just trying to share what happened with me. You're the one saying that atheism is such a dreadful thing.

I said atheism on the grounds I listed seems far more dreadful. You shared what happened to you and expanded that to mean your conclusion is that atheism makes people value life more than believers in general. I don't know if you connected any dots. It appears you just favor it due to bias, personal bias.

Of the two of us, it's you is who most engaged in black and white thinking and bias. I shared my personal experience. You're the one making the sweeping generalizations. You're the one who can't seem to see things from anything other than your own perspective.

As far as bias goes, my bias was in favor of faith, not atheism. I became an atheist in SPITE of my bias. It's not like I wanted to become an atheist.

[_stemelbow]

I didn't say I was right because I say I am. However, my position is the scholarly take, and yours is the faithful take on the issue. It is the faithful side that is always laden with the greatest number of unsupported assumptions.

And yet you're employing unsupported assumptions in this thread as a means to make your case.

In any case, I was just trying to help you see things from someone else's perspective. I wasn't trying to change your mind.

of course not. But that doesn't mean your perspective as offered is all that convincing or reasonable.

[_stemelbow]

Of the two of us, it's you is who most engaged in black and white thinking and bias. I shared my personal experience. You're the one making the sweeping generalizations. You're the one who can't seem to see things from anything other than your own perspective.

uh oh. this devolved quickly. Buffalo, all I did was point out your black and white thinking and your sweeping generalizations. I'm trying to see things from your perspective, but just because you are happier as an atheist than you were as an LDS does not mean that atheism is superior. Itcould mean a number of things. It doesn't even mean ahteism is better for you necessarily.

As far as bias goes, my bias was in favor of faith, not atheism. I became an atheist in SPITE of my bias. It's not like I wanted to become an atheist.

Interesting. But that doesn't mean you don't carry bias now. I'm not sure what this has to do with what i said or the thread.

[_Buffalo]

And yet you're employing unsupported assumptions in this thread as a means to make your case.

And which unsupported assumptions are those?

of course not. But that doesn't mean your perspective as offered is all that convincing or reasonable.

In your present state of mind I don't think it's possible to present you with any atheistic argument you'd find convincing or reasonable. But I again would submit that I'm being far more reasonable than you. I'm trying to see both sides fairly. You are not.

[_stemelbow]

And which unsupported assumptions are those?

The ones in which you started saying how atheism makes people appreciate life more, makes people happier or whatever. you know those ones. The dots you tried to connect left chasms of unsupported assumptions.

In your present state of mind I don't think it's possible to present you with any atheistic argument you'd find convincing or reasonable.

oh no not the no pearls before swine thing again(;

But I again would submit that I'm being far more reasonable than you. I'm trying to see both sides fairly. You are not.

uh wow. I'm surprised that's your view. Well I disagree.

[_Buffalo]

uh oh. this devolved quickly. Buffalo, all I did was point out your black and white thinking and your sweeping generalizations. I'm trying to see things from your perspective, but just because you are happier as an atheist than you were as an LDS does not mean that atheism is superior. Itcould mean a number of things. It doesn't even mean ahteism is better for you necessarily.

I didn't make sweeping generalizations. I said atheism is in some ways better. I admitted that theism could be better in other circumstances. You've made no such concessions.

I'd just throw one scripture at you, Stem. "Men are that they might have joy."

Interesting. But that doesn't mean you don't carry bias now. I'm not sure what this has to do with what i said or the thread.

I'm positive that I'm biased now in favor of atheism. But the key thing is that I became an atheism AGAINST my bias at the time, which was faithful LDS, wanting to believe in God and heaven and the restoration. Whatever position we hold at any given time eventually becomes our bias. But the evidence, as I saw it, caused me to go against my bias at the time.