TBMs: How do you Reconcile Facsimile No. 2?

[_Shulem]

That post Abrahamic Egyptians see the facsimile as telling a different tale because the original is embarrasing to their rulers and religion. But I've already elaboarted on that.

And what is the name of the king written in the writing of Facsimile No. 3? Is that a different tale too? Is it embarrasing?

Joseph Smith said the writing contained the name of the king in question. I want you to tell me that king's name. You've never elaborated on that.

But wouldn't it have been a laugh had Joseph Smith included a name in the Explanations! That would have been more fuel to the fire.

Paul O

[_Buffalo]

Not a problem:

http://www.pbs.org/empires/egypt/newkingdom/hatshepsut.html

After 22 years of reign, Hatshepsut died and her stepson, Tuthmosis III, finally gained the throne that had been rightfully his for decades. Tuthmosis resented his long wait for power and was determined to make Hatshepsut pay. He wanted to wipe her from history so that Egyptians would forget that she had ever ruled.

In a massive operation, he ordered that her name and image be removed from every part of Egypt. He was so successful that Hatshepsut was totally erased from Egyptian history until 1903, when British archaeologist Howard Carter found her tomb and her story was rediscovered for the first time in 3,500 years.

But one did not have to wait for a PBS special. This type of thing is common throughout Egyptian history and commonly known even among amateur Egyptologists. So yes indeed, meanings and stories about history under Egyptian influence could have been changed, even in the Book of Abraham case. Why would the Egyptian ruling class at the time of Abraham want a major defeat of their religion to be a historical fact?

An instance of putting one person down the memory hole? 100% irrelevant. You're claiming that the Egyptologists haven't been able to read Egyptian, while Joseph got it right. It's an issue of language. Got anything else?

Joseph couldn't even get the GENDER of the people in the facsimile right. Let alone the words.

[_sock puppet]

So, bcspace, do you think Facs 2 has been correctly restored by JSJr to its original image,

I believe the correct interpretation from the orginal has been restored.

upside down hieratics added to what had remained intact only bearing upright hieroglyphics?

Meaningless since we may not have the original.

Apart from that, bcspace, does LDS scipture include a false restoration?

[Guest]

So, TBMs, how do you reconcile these problems with Facsimile No. 2 and its Explanation with your faith in LDS truth claims?

Well, once again, the question of whether or not I am a TBM is in dispute. But the short answer to your question, is that I don't "reconcile these problems" with my "faith in LDS truth claims." I have no idea why Joseph Smith turned the facsimile upside down (if in fact he did), or why scholars give a different interpretation of the facsimile than he did.

On the other hand, I do know why I believe a good God controls the universe, and I also know why I believe God chose Smith as His spokesman to the world. That doesn't explain everything that the LDS Church involves. The Book of Abraham is just one example of something associated with the LDS Church that has me scratching my head, wondering where the truth actually lies. But it does give me enough information that I'm perfectly happy staying a devout Latter-day Saint.

[_Mad Viking]

So, TBMs, how do you reconcile these problems with Facsimile No. 2 and its Explanation with your faith in LDS truth claims?

Well, once again the question of whether or not I am a TBM is in dispute. But the short answer to your question, is that I don't "reconcile these problems" with my "faith in LDS truth claims." I have no idea why Joseph Smith turned the facsimile upside down (if in fact he did), or why scholars give a different interpretation of the facsimile than he did.

On the other hand, I do know why I believe a good God controls the universe, and I also know why I believe God chose Smith as His spokesman to the world. That doesn't explain everything that the LDS Church involves. The Book of Abraham is just one example of something associated with the LDS Church that has me scratching my head, wondering where the truth actually lies. But it does give me enough information that I'm perfectly happy staying a devout Latter-day Saint.

Based on these statements I'd say you're definitely TBM.

[_sock puppet]

...I also know why I believe God chose Smith as His spokesman to the world.

Please enlighten us. Why did god choose JSJr 'as His spokeman to the world'?

[_Shulem]

...I also know why I believe God chose Smith as His spokesman to the world.

Please enlighten us. Why did god choose JSJr 'as His spokeman to the world'?

And, please tell us why Joseph Smith, the self-proclaimed Egyptian translator, dared insult the great god Anubis in Facsimile No. 3, by calling him a "slave". I want to hear your reasoning on this blunder. Apparently the successors of Joseph Smith (Church Presidents) are too afraid or simply unwilling to comment on this matter -- but the Mormon church is guilty of slamming another religion by insulting one of its chief gods in a very uncaring way and has not issued an apology. The Mormon church has a lot to answer for! What say ye?

Paul O

[_Shulem]

I have no idea why Joseph Smith turned the facsimile upside down (if in fact he did), or why scholars give a different interpretation of the facsimile than he did.

Of course you have no idea. You don't even know what you're talking about. Joseph Smith added Egyptian characters from another papyrus into the damaged portion of the original Hypocephalus to complete his Facsimile in order to make it look proper, but character were inserted in the registers upside down. That's a fact. He goofed up.

Did you know there are people in this world that can read Egyptian just as you are able to read English? How would you like it if you were reading an English paragraph and suddenly came across some words that were upside down? Then you found out the words were upside down because some foreign prophet of another religion was impressed by inspiration to put them there in that fashion. Would that bode well with you? I doubt that it would.

Joseph Smith couldn't read Egyptian. Egyptolgists through arts and advancement of science have revealed the language anew and the language is once again read by scholars. But Joseph Smith couldn't read it, let alone copy it and write it down in correct directional orientation. The whole presentation offered by Joseph Smith in demonstrating his understanding of the Egyptian language is wrong.

Perhaps in several thousand years some religious nutcase will retranslate the Book of Mormon from English and come up with some story totally unrelated to the original. How would you like that? Well, that's pretty much what Joseph Smith did. I tell you the Egyptians are rolling in their graves. The Mormon church owes the Egyptians an apology for insulted their religion and their gods. It's a travesty.

Paul O

[_KevinSim]

Based on these statements I'd say you're definitely TBM.

I'm glad we cleared that up! :)

[_KevinSim]

...I also know why I believe God chose Smith as His spokesman to the world.

Please enlighten us. Why did god choose JSJr 'as His spokeman to the world'?

Sock Puppet, I never said I know why God chose Joseph Smith "as His spokesman to the world." I said I know why I believe "God chose Smith as His spokesman to the world."

Do you want to know why I believe God chose him as His spokesman to the world?

I seem to vaguely recall a long time ago a Latter-day Saint telling me something regarding why God chose Smith, but I don't remember it being particularly persuasive at the time, and I definitely don't remember any details of the explanation. To be perfectly honest I don't know why God chose Smith as His spokesman.