TBMs: How do you Reconcile Facsimile No. 2?

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_Cardinal Biggles
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Re: TBMs: How do you Reconcile Facsimile No. 2?

Post by _Cardinal Biggles »

KevinSim wrote:The Book of Abraham is just one example of something associated with the LDS Church that has me scratching my head, wondering where the truth actually lies.


That's good. Then I suppose you can understand why some people would come to the conclusion that the Book of Abraham was a fabrication and, consequently, why they would conclude that the claims made by the COJCOLDS are not all true.

I'd say that if you recognize that reasonable people can reasonably come to the conclusion that the COJCOLDS is false, then you're already a step ahead of many TBMs, many of whom have the attitude that something must be wrong with former believers who lose faith due to the Book of Abraham issue.
_KevinSim
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Re: TBMs: How do you Reconcile Facsimile No. 2?

Post by _KevinSim »

Shulem wrote:And, please tell us why Joseph Smith, the self-proclaimed Egyptian translator, dared insult the great god Anubis in Facsimile No. 3, by calling him a "slave". I want to hear your reasoning on this blunder. Apparently the successors of Joseph Smith (Church Presidents) are too afraid or simply unwilling to comment on this matter -- but the Mormon church is guilty of slamming another religion by insulting one of its chief gods in a very uncaring way and has not issued an apology. The Mormon church has a lot to answer for! What say ye?

Joseph Smith wasn't particularly interested in refraining from insulting great gods of other faiths. Smith's main interest was in recording those things God wanted him to record, after looking at the ancient documents.

Perhaps you think the good God who controls the universe couldn't have inspired Smith to write down one story, if scholars had a way of interpreting such records that gave good results, and if that way of interpreting told a story that varied sharply from the one Smith told. Furthermore I think such a viewpoint is completely understandable; I can see how a lot of very reasonable people might agree with you. But I don't share that viewpoint. I think it's completely possible that there might be two interpretations of the facsimile, one held by the ancient Egyptians and one held by God.

And all what we've said also rests on the assumption that the translation of the facsimile by the scholars you're referring to is in fact accurate. Before I came to that conclusion I'd have to make a thorough analysis of both the documents those scholars have published and the things other people have said on both sides of the Book of Abraham controversy.

I've kind of commented on things like this in the past. Another thread talked somewhat about the question of what people would do if they left the LDS Church. I said that I've actually thought about what I would do if I left the Church a lot. What I wouldn't do is leave the Church and become an atheist or an agnostic; I'm simply not that kind of person. Instead I would set up an organization whose purpose was to do thorough investigations of the type mentioned above, that would rigorously analyze statements made on all potentially credible sides of issues like the Book of Abraham controversy, and that would present conclusions to the organization for a democratic vote as to whether the conclusions made sense or not. Before such a vote the general audience would have an opportunity to ask questions of the investigator, to insure that all voices have been represented.

But as I also said previously, spearheading this organization would be a full-time job, which would involve the financially risky step of quitting my current job. Also, judging from what my wife has said the two times since 1999 I've brought up with her the idea of this organization, she would almost certainly leave me if I did try to set it up. For these two reasons, probably the latter more than the former, I'm probably not going to be spearheading this organization any time soon.

In the absence of such an organization, all I can do is stay open to the possibility that either side might be right, which is what I'm doing right now. In such a situation, the LDS idea that the way to find out the truth about things is to build one's theological foundation on something God has told one personally, actually sounds very persuasive. In a world where being absolutely sure that what scholars are telling one is accurate, is so difficult, trusting the theological foundation that God has given one makes a lot more sense.
KevinSim

Reverence the eternal.
_KevinSim
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Re: TBMs: How do you Reconcile Facsimile No. 2?

Post by _KevinSim »

Morley wrote:Maybe you don't. If you place the Flood at 3000 BCE, you certainly do.

I'm not even convinced there was a world-wide flood, let alone that it happened in 3000 BCE. I firmly believe God wants us to read the Bible under the influence of the Holy Spirit to learn about Him; I have no firm belief that everything it says is literally true. As far as I'm concerned it could have been a regional flood that the Biblical authors thought was world-wide.
KevinSim

Reverence the eternal.
_Shulem
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Re: TBMs: How do you Reconcile Facsimile No. 2?

Post by _Shulem »

Joseph Smith wasn't particularly interested in refraining from insulting great gods of other faiths. Smith's main interest was in recording those things God wanted him to record, after looking at the ancient documents.


Whether Smith was concerned about insulting the Deity of another religion is not the point. He was likely very concerned about how his claims would be perceived by his followers and those who attended the exhibits he put on in Kirtland. It seems the Presidents of the Church since the days of Smith are impervious to the very idea that their own scriptures have insulted another religion and don't even bat an eye. The Mormon church, however, insults all the other religions by telling them they are wrong. So, that's par for the course. Never mind they call the god of another religion a mere slave. Such, is slander.

Perhaps you think the good God who controls the universe couldn't have inspired Smith to write down one story, if scholars had a way of interpreting such records that gave good results, and if that way of interpreting told a story that varied sharply from the one Smith told.


No, I don't think the good God who controls the universe inspired Joseph Smith to write his story and nor do I think God is unable to read Egyptian. It was Joseph Smith who said there is a king's name above the character in Facsimile No. 3 but there is no such name. Smith couldn't read Egyptian but God can and therein lies the difference between the two.

It appears from the rest of your post you are trying to work things out and I wish you every luck in coming to terms with Joseph Smith's deception. Once you understand the difference between true Egyptology as created and understood by the ancient Egyptians revealed through qualified scientific study today it becomes readily apparent that Joseph Smith and his pretended revelations are dead wrong. You should put a little faith in science, my friend, rather than the made-up interpretations of a pretended seer who couldn't even tell which way the writing goes.

Now, can the God who controls the universe find the name of the Egyptian king in this reply? If you can't see it then you can't read English the way God can. It's written in the characters above this line. Do you see it now?

Paul O
_hatersinmyward
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Re: TBMs: How do you Reconcile Facsimile No. 2?

Post by _hatersinmyward »

The LDS leaders try to get their members to open their third eye when viewing their lies so members can justify the lies they've been taught all their lives. The leaders have also have been successful in getting non-momrons to buy into their lies/cover-ups/deceit by spending boat loads of money or using their brainwashing techniques.
_Lord Anubis
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Re: TBMs: How do you Reconcile Facsimile No. 2?

Post by _Lord Anubis »

KevinSim wrote:
Shulem wrote:And, please tell us why Joseph Smith, the self-proclaimed Egyptian translator, dared insult the great god Anubis in Facsimile No. 3, by calling him a "slave". I want to hear your reasoning on this blunder. Apparently the successors of Joseph Smith (Church Presidents) are too afraid or simply unwilling to comment on this matter -- but the Mormon church is guilty of slamming another religion by insulting one of its chief gods in a very uncaring way and has not issued an apology. The Mormon church has a lot to answer for! What say ye?

Joseph Smith wasn't particularly interested in refraining from insulting great gods of other faiths.


BUT HE DID INSULT ME, ANUBIS, GREAT GOD OF EGYPT AND PROTECTOR OF THE DEAD!

JOSEPH SMITH HAS FACED MY JUDGMENT FOR HIS HORRID BLASPHEMIES AGAINST ME, AND HE HAS BECOME VERY INTERESTED IN REFRAINING FROM INSULTING THE GREAT GODS OF EGYPT AS I WEIGHED HIS HEART AND FOUND IT TO BE IMPURE! HIS BLASPHEMOUS HEART WAS DEVOURED BY AMMUT!

TURN FROM THE FALSE PROPHET WHO DEFILED MY MIGHTY NAME AND WORSHIP ME, FOR ALL WILL FACE MY JUDGMENT AFTER THIS LIFE!
FACSIMILE NO. 3 IS A BLASPHEMOUS LIE!
_Shulem
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Re: TBMs: How do you Reconcile Facsimile No. 2?

Post by _Shulem »

In Facsimile No. 2, figure 2, Joseph Smith likened the jackal god Anubis upon the standard as a symbol of the key of power. Amazing!

But in Facsimile No. 3, wherein Anubis appears in his human form, according to Smith's explanation, he is reduced to the level of a slave. So, we see when the god is a dog he is the key of power but when a human he becomes a slave.

How can a dog be the "key of power" and more important than a human? bcspace or, Mormon suckers, please explain.

Paul O
_Shulem
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Re: TBMs: How do you Reconcile Facsimile No. 2?

Post by _Shulem »

BUT HE DID INSULT ME, ANUBIS, GREAT GOD OF EGYPT AND PROTECTOR OF THE DEAD!

JOSEPH SMITH HAS FACED MY JUDGMENT FOR HIS HORRID BLASPHEMIES AGAINST ME, AND HE HAS BECOME VERY INTERESTED IN REFRAINING FROM INSULTING THE GREAT GODS OF EGYPT AS I WEIGHED HIS HEART AND FOUND IT TO BE IMPURE! HIS BLASPHEMOUS HEART WAS DEVOURED BY AMMUT!

TURN FROM THE FALSE PROPHET WHO DEFILED MY MIGHTY NAME AND WORSHIP ME, FOR ALL WILL FACE MY JUDGMENT AFTER THIS LIFE!


O great Anubis, thou art great and Joseph Smith the pretended prophet dared to commit blasphemy against you, your divine image, your power -- your might. You, Anubis, are justified in having thrown the lying prophet into the pit wherein he was eaten and devoured by the beast.

Hear the words of Anubis.
Hear the words of Anubis.
Hear the words of Anunis.

Paul O
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