BoAbr: "You're Down to Your Ride, Pal"

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_Shulem
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Re: BoAbr: "You're Down to Your Ride, Pal"

Post by _Shulem »

Image


bcspace,

[ ] yes [ ] No
Is the person in the Facsimile clip above a king of Egypt?

x__________ What is the name of the person written in the writing above the hand?

Paul O
_bcspace
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Re: BoAbr: "You're Down to Your Ride, Pal"

Post by _bcspace »

ignore anything said or written by any of the LDS prophets, seers and revelators....


Those of their words which are published by the Church are doctrine.

Its NOT doctrine!!! even though its called and still published with the title "Mormon DOCTRINE"...


I think even one of your own ilk, Steve Benson, would agree with me:

"We [the First Presidency of the Church] decided that Bruce R. McConkie’s book, ‘Mormon Doctrine’ recently published by Bookcraft Company, must not be re-published, as it is full of errors and misstatements, and it is most unfortunate that it has received such wide circulation. It is reported to us that Brother McConkie has made corrections to his book, and is now preparing another edition. We decided this morning that we do not want him to publish another edition."

They did not give approval for the first edition either.
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_sock puppet
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Re: BoAbr: "You're Down to Your Ride, Pal"

Post by _sock puppet »

Shulem wrote:The Book of Abraham
Facsimile 3
2. King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head.


Image

........................................

Sorry, Joseph Smith, but you are dead wrong and you are making it all up. The person you refer to in Explanation 2, is a goddess and there is no king's name above her head. Stop lying Joseph Smith! This translation/explanation is false! Mormon scripture is corrupt.

Has the LDS church no shame? President Monson, you are a coward for not addressing this matter before your people. I have no respect for you, Monson. You cover the lies of your founding prophet in your own sins while your people pay you, feed you, clothe you, and take care of you like a king in a foreign country. You, President Monson are in the height of priestcraft as is the pope.

Paul O

Hey, Paul,

I don't think I've had the opportunity to thank you for returning and resuming your participation here at MDB. I greatly appreciate you and your participation.

That said, I think GBH was being intentionally obtuse on Larry King, and not forthright or honest in his answer to King's question about Mormonism teaching that elohim "himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man", as clearly spelled out by JSJr on 4/7/1844 as part of the King Follett sermon.

By contrast, I believe TSM doesn't even realize the problems with the BoAbr, the Sensen papyrus, and the KEP. He's spent his ministry focused on stories about widows, cookies, and Arthur Patton--and he got caught on the veracity of that one. TSM seems like a pretty nice and congenial guy, but I would dare say that in understanding Mormon doctrine, compare to all his predecessors all the way back to JSJr, TSM is a major league light-weight.
_Shulem
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Re: BoAbr: "You're Down to Your Ride, Pal"

Post by _Shulem »

Puppet,

Thanks for the kind words.

And yes, I think Gordy Hinckley lied for the Lord on Larry's show. No question about that. He pulled an Abraham and accepted the sister but denied the wife.

TSM (Thomas S. Monson) is a dope. He tells the same stuff over and over and is living in ground hog day. He has the IQ of about 2.5.

TSM isn't smart enough to know that the men (according to Joseph Smith) in Facsimile No. 3 are really women and that they have breasts and vaginas. TSM walks around with his eyelids glued shut and dreaming of sugar cookies and new sayings to put on greeting cards. Merry Christmas Tommy! Enjoy your new trainset, boy.

Paul O
_Tarski
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Re: BoAbr: "You're Down to Your Ride, Pal"

Post by _Tarski »

Shulem wrote:Image


bcspace,

[ ] yes [ ] No
Is the person in the Facsimile clip above a king of Egypt?

x__________ What is the name of the person written in the writing above the hand?

Paul O


Come on BC!
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
_jon
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Re: BoAbr: "You're Down to Your Ride, Pal"

Post by _jon »

From the Book of Abraham introduction written by Joseph Smith.

A Translation of some ancient Records that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt. The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.

Whoops.
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
_Shulem
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Re: BoAbr: "You're Down to Your Ride, Pal"

Post by _Shulem »

jon wrote:From the Book of Abraham introduction written by Joseph Smith.

A Translation of some ancient Records that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt. The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.

Whoops.


Quincy Whig, Vol. 3, p. 1, October 1840

"He (Joseph Smith) then walked to a secretary, on the opposite side of the room, and drew out several frames, covered with glass, under which were numerous fragments of Egyptian papyrus, on which, as usual, a great variety of hieroglyphical characters had been imprinted.

'These ancient records,' said he, throw great light on the subject of Christianity. They have been unrolled and preserved with great labor and care. My time has been hitherto too much taken up to translate the whole of them, but I will show you how I interpret certain parts. There,' said he, pointing to a particular character, 'that is the SIGNATURE of the patriarch Abraham.'

'It is indeed a most interesting autograph,' I replied, 'and doubtless the only one extant. What an ornament it would be to have these ancient manuscripts handsomely set, in appropriate frames, and hung up around the walls of the temple which you are about to erect at this place.'

'Yes', replied the Prophet, 'and the translation hung up with them'."

The Saga of the Book of Abraham; Jay M. Todd, p. 211
The Story of the Pearl of Great Price; James R. Clark, p. 112

Paul O
_Kevin Graham
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Re: BoAbr: "You're Down to Your Ride, Pal"

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Of course McConkie's book was doctrine.

Either that, or the man was a published liar.

"Mormon Doctrine" isn't Mormon doctrine? Gee, that would have been news to everyone in my ward back in 1989. A year later when the ward threw a farewell party for my before my mission, they pitched in to purchase me two books to use on my mission. The Missionary Pal and McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine." They all signed the latter.

On my mission McConkie's work was used by missionaries when questions of doctrine arose. There was never the slightest hint that it wasn't really doctrine. Nor was there such a thing as "official" or unofficial" doctrine. Over the next few decades this gradually became a popular apologetic tool used by people who were trying to dismiss conflicting or embarrassing doctrines of the Church.

I remember going to the LDS bookstores with some faithful members who refused to buy apologetic books like the Day of Defense or the Gainsayers, because they were not written by General Authorities. They'd say things like "who the heck is this guy"? But GAs write books all the time, not only to increase their purse, but to provide the membership with a constant source of doctrinal instruction.
_Yahoo Bot
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Re: BoAbr: "You're Down to Your Ride, Pal"

Post by _Yahoo Bot »

Either that, or the man was a published liar.


Oh my goodness; there he goes again.

No thinking Latter-day Saint would have rightfully thought Mormon Doctrine was definitive doctrine. My own sainted mother, when I was 12, handed me her first edition of Mormon Doctrine and explained to me the well-known issues with the first and later editions, the controversies involved and the fact that it was published by Bookcraft.

As much as I love and revere Elder McConkie and his book, there isn't any doubt it my mind or the mind of many others like me who have a library of more than 10 church books is that Elder McConkie went out on limbs, overstated things and was inaccurate. I have certainly read his doctrinal commentary on the New Testament and can see for myself the problems he had -- he was a scriptorian but not a theologian nor was he well read in what I would call collateral historical material about the scriptures.

And, returning to the Bookcraft issue -- a book published by Bookcraft was marginal. So it always was and so it always is. The fact that Bookcraft was acquired by Deseret Books is of little significance; the book came out originally under a Bookcraft title.

And, returning to the word "Doctrine" in the title, it was merely one man's commentary on doctrine; nothing more.

So, you have have folks such as yourself and Jason who howl to the moon like so many jackals that Bookcraft publications are like the Ten Commandments themselves. Well, they're not, never have been.

As far as the Book of Abraham is concerned, it is sublime midrash. Joseph Smith didn't really describe how it was translated, and the fact that the facsimiles don't follow the text or the fact that Joseph saw a man's head where a jackal should be, or the fact that the facsimile doesn't properly display a phallus, is all immaterial to believers. Translation is a unique and unusual process and it isn't by the numbers. Why quibble over the translation of the Book of Abraham when a literal resurrection is a more outrageous affront to human experience?
_bcspace
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Re: BoAbr: "You're Down to Your Ride, Pal"

Post by _bcspace »

Of course McConkie's book was doctrine.

Either that, or the man was a published liar.

"Mormon Doctrine" isn't Mormon doctrine? Gee, that would have been news to everyone in my ward back in 1989. A year later when the ward threw a farewell party for my before my mission, they pitched in to purchase me two books to use on my mission. The Missionary Pal and McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine." They all signed the latter.

On my mission McConkie's work was used by missionaries when questions of doctrine arose. There was never the slightest hint that it wasn't really doctrine. Nor was there such a thing as "official" or unofficial" doctrine. Over the next few decades this gradually became a popular apologetic tool used by people who were trying to dismiss conflicting or embarrassing doctrines of the Church.

I remember going to the LDS bookstores with some faithful members who refused to buy apologetic books like the Day of Defense or the Gainsayers, because they were not written by General Authorities. They'd say things like "who the heck is this guy"? But GAs write books all the time, not only to increase their purse, but to provide the membership with a constant source of doctrinal instruction.


Relative to the Church, usage and authorship are and were meaningless when BRM had the work published when it comes to official doctrine. But we've already addressed all this in the other thread. For sure some are upset that they erroneously thought it was doctrine all these years and missed the disclaimer that was published with it.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
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