Drifting wrote: Alma 54:5 Behold, Ammoron, I have written unto you somewhat concerning this war which ye have waged against my people, or rather which thy brother hath waged against them
Mosiah 8:17 But a seer can know of things which are past, and also of things which are to come, and by them shall all things be revealed, or, rather, shall secret things be made manifest, and hidden things shall come to light, and things which are not known shall be made known by them, and also things shall be made known by them which otherwise could not be known.
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The old testament is a bad read to. The sentence structures suck. And they are difficult to follow. What do we make of that?
Chapter 3
Peace offerings are made with animals without blemish, whose blood is sprinkled on the altar—Israel is forbidden to eat fat or blood.
1 And if his oblation be a sacrifice of peace offering, if he offer it of the herd; whether it be a male or female, he shall offer it without blemish before the Lord.
2 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of his offering, and kill it at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation: and Aaron’s sons the priests shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about.
3 And he shall offer of the sacrifice of the peace offering an offering made by fire unto the Lord; the fat that covereth the inwards, and all the fat that is upon the inwards,
4 And the two kidneys, and the fat that is on them, which is by the flanks, and the caul above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away.
5 And Aaron’s sons shall burn it on the altar upon the burnt sacrifice, which is upon the wood that is on the fire: it is an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord.
Isn't that a great read? In fact the problems with Book of Mormon syntax tend to confirm its time span and its origins.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Themis wrote:HOLY s***. Am I reading this right, from the guy who is always throwing out any old theory, any old possibility. Maybe you shouldn't get on others for doing what you are famous for here.
I'm not surprised you are unable to see the mistake in your reasoning, Themis. you see possiblity for me means that the effort to prove wrong can be wrong itself. To use a possibility to attack for criticism is going about it all wrong.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Themis wrote:Joseph's lack of good grammar tend to be over blown to make the Book of Mormon look better, but then try reading the original before any mistakes were fixed. The Mozart's example, as with others, is juts to show that people even at young ages can do great things, so why not Joseph. Why does he have to be presented as some stupid farm boy?
my goodness. you missed my point. I agree there are people in the world who seem capable of doing extraordinary things. It happens. 'm impressed with many things people are able to do. But, that doesn't take away that Joseph Smith did something that, it seems, hasn't really been done before. And in doing that something he had no particular training, no verifiable skill. Nothing. That doesn't mean he was some stupid farm boy, but that he was just what he was.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
why me wrote: Isn't that a great read? In fact the problems with Book of Mormon syntax tend to confirm its time span and its origins.
Not really. It does confirm that the Book of Mormon borrows heavily from the KGV of the Bible, both in language type and quoting it. Even quoting many sections not available to Nehpi or others after him without some good divine help.
Themis wrote:Joseph's lack of good grammar tend to be over blown to make the Book of Mormon look better, but then try reading the original before any mistakes were fixed. The Mozart's example, as with others, is juts to show that people even at young ages can do great things, so why not Joseph. Why does he have to be presented as some stupid farm boy?
my goodness. you missed my point. I agree there are people in the world who seem capable of doing extraordinary things. It happens. 'm impressed with many things people are able to do. But, that doesn't take away that Joseph Smith did something that, it seems, hasn't really been done before. And in doing that something he had no particular training, no verifiable skill. Nothing. That doesn't mean he was some stupid farm boy, but that he was just what he was.
Perhaps you should look into the production of the Quran by Mohammed.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Themis wrote: Joseph was a skilled at making people think he could use a rock in a hat.Not really a stupid farm boy, but we know why you want people to think so. And do you know why some would think Sidney Rigdon was involved, when he didn't even meet Joseph publicly or join the church until after the Book of Mormon was publishes?
Let me make it simple for you: What the critics are saying now about Joseph Smith was the same they were claiming back then. Nothing is really knew. And that goes for sidney too.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote: Isn't that a great read? In fact the problems with Book of Mormon syntax tend to confirm its time span and its origins.
Not really. It does confirm that the Book of Mormon borrows heavily from the KGV of the Bible, both in language type and quoting it. Even quoting many sections not available to Nehpi or others after him without some good divine help.
So now instead of Joseph being a bad writer as stated in a previous post quoting the Book of Mormon, we now have Joseph copying the syntax of the old testament while having his head in a hat. That is a big jump.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
stemelbow wrote: my goodness. you missed my point. I agree there are people in the world who seem capable of doing extraordinary things. It happens. 'm impressed with many things people are able to do. But, that doesn't take away that Joseph Smith did something that, it seems, hasn't really been done before.
I agree that it was fairly unique to him, but then the same could be said of the many great things others have done.
And in doing that something he had no particular training, no verifiable skill. Nothing. That doesn't mean he was some stupid farm boy, but that he was just what he was.
We know he was a good orator, which would be a valuable skill for what they did. He was also skilled with the rock in a hat which is what he used here as well. This also does not mean others may have been involved like Oliver. The rock in a hat may have been a just a prop. We don't need to know this information though. We can look at the text and see it is much more likely a 19th century fiction. Is there anything that would be considered impossible or extremely unlikely for Joseph and others to do in regards to the Book of Mormon?
why me wrote: Let me make it simple for you: What the critics are saying now about Joseph Smith was the same they were claiming back then. Nothing is really knew. And that goes for sidney too.
And how is this a bad thing?
So now instead of Joseph being a bad writer as stated in a previous post quoting the Book of Mormon, we now have Joseph copying the syntax of the old testament while having his head in a hat. That is a big jump.
He was a poor writer as can be seen from his writing, but we also see this in the original Book of Mormon and other revelations. He was a better orator. We have always had Joseph copying the Bible in both direct quotes and general language, which is a language he would have been very familiar with. I am not aware of apologists arguing that Joseph was not familiar with the KJV of the Bible, but hey you never know. :)
edit: It's funny that you don't seem to get that the critic position is that Joseph made it up, possibly with others, and that the rock in a hat may have just been a prop, not necessarily where the Book of Mormon was created. This seems clear considering just how much of it is quoted word for word from the Bible.