Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

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_why me
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _why me »

Spurven Ten Sing wrote:I wonder if why me still thinks Finland is in Scandinavia?


I think that I showed on a link that it is an open debate. Some say yes, and some say no. Personally, geographically it is in scandinavia but linguistically it isn't. However, some folks from your part of the world do not want to recognize finland as being located in scandinavia mainly because of language. But to claim that finland stands alone and it is not located anywhere geographically---in the baltic area or as a part of scandinavia, well, what can I say?
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
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We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
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_MsJack
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _MsJack »

EAllusion wrote:For the record, whyme's argument in the other thread wasn't that parents should spend more time at home with their children as they are able. It was that women - and women specifically - in relationships should spend more time at home with their children and ideally be homemakers. The former is defensible and uncontroversial. The latter is sexist and dumb.

hugh jass wrote:whyme has clearly demonstrated in past posts that he is no expert nor role model on anything related to marriage, raising children, or women. Well that is women who are clothed and not being paid to keep his credit card on file at several online websites.

These statements are right on the mark.

I'm wondering how many of these children who are in daycare 10 hours a day are the children of single mothers, and how many of these single mothers are supporting their children all by themselves because the father has abandoned them. It's just another testament to why me's sexism that he automatically assumes that the women are to blame for not staying home.
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13

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_Blixa
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _Blixa »

why me wrote:
EAllusion wrote:For the record, whyme's argument in the other thread wasn't that parents should spend more time at home with their children as they are able. It was that women - and women specifically - in relationships should spend more time at home with their children and ideally be homemakers. The former is defensible and uncontroversial. The latter is sexist and dumb.


Actually no that wasn't my agrument at all. I think that I did say that we are living in a changing world. It is becoming increasingly impossible for one parent to stay at home and raise the children. And this is a problem especially if parents are becoming part time parents. Now if one parent can stay at home, the woman would be the most suitable, if this woman knew basic parenting skills. But since parents are becoming part time parents, and since we don't actually encourage people to be stay at home parents, it has become a mute point.

The point: the socioeconomic system is forcing both parents to work to make ends meat and this creates problems for the children later on as they need a parent to guide them through life.


Still sexist and dumb. And not nearly "mute" enough...

(To quote Darth J, "must.resist.double entendre.")
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Ms Jack

I'm wondering how many of these children who are in daycare 10 hours a day are the children of single mothers, and how many of these single mothers are supporting their children all by themselves because the father has abandoned them.


There are perhaps 4 types of childcare programs available for use by parents in need of care for their child.

1. Licensed center
2. Licensed in home
3. Care provided by family member or 4. Unlicensed in home


Under the heading of "Licensed center" there are also a number of types and styles of programs. Licensed in home, typically serves a variety of age ranges from infants to school agers. Unlicensed programs are totally legal so long as they abide by certain restrictions. Parents choose Unlicensed and family provided care for the simple fact that they cost less.

That said, the number of hours that a child may stay in licensed childcare as per state statutes, varies according to age.

Taking the child who is eligible for 10 hours per day. Look at the list I made once more. I made it in a specific order. When the economy tanks or the parent is otherwise economically challenged, their choices for childcare options follow that pattern from top to bottom.

Single parent mothers and fathers who are employed (such as Jack noted), typically receive assistance provided by the state for the cost of childcare. That is to say, depending on the situation, all or part of the cost of childcare is paid for by the state.

I don't have any stats at hand to support Jack's assumption however, I can think of two ways that she is likely correct. The child of the single parent is the victim of an absentee second parent (usually the father) or the single parent mother is still in a relationship with the bio dad and they are concealing the relationship for the purpose of receiving state funding for the cost of childcare and other types of state and federal benefits such as healthcare.

Surely, the single parents whose children are in childcare for 10 hours per day do have choices, however, there are circumstances of total abandonment wherein the only option is for the single parent to work and leave their child in a childcare program.

The issue isn't as black or white as why me would wish to portray it.

Hope that helps.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Just a couple of more comments because I do think that why me can be reasoned with and I would like to make an appeal to him. Only time will tell if he is receptive...

why me,

If I am not mistaken, you are of the same generation that I am. You remember the Newark riots of 67 and that sort of thing, so I think we are at least in the same ball park.

I know how easy it is to look at this generation through critical eyes. We see children dropped off in childcare programs on a daily basis and as you stated, some up to 10 hours per day. You believe this is detrimental to the general well being of the child and to some extent, I agree with you. We (our generation) believe that the world has gone haywire and parents are more concerned with the almighty dollar and collecting material goods (Mc Mansions) over the well being of their own children. We (our generation) believe that the very best situation for a child is to be raised by two parents (male/female) with the child(ren) being cared for by the mother as nurturer as we believe God intended.

Let me tell you something why me. Ozzie and Harriet didn't exist. If the Nelson's and Cleavers ever existed, they certainly weren't part of my own journey.

Beginning at age 9, I was raised by a single parent mother for the duration of my childhood. For two years, I was cared for in a home setting (not my own home) by a family friend and from age 11 forward, I became a "latch key" kid.

There WERE no licensed programs in those days. There WAS no state funded childcare assistance. There existed NONE of the benefits that we see and pay for today with our tax dollars.

As a latch key kid, I did exactly what I was told to do by my mother. Locking the doors, etc., and not answering knocks at the door. (We didn't have a door bell, we were economically depressed that is to say, we were dirt poor) I spent the first few years as a latch key kid scared shitless every time someone would knock at the door. This included before and after school, and all summer long. In some ways, I strongly benefitted from the experience of being on my own, but again, I was scared out of my mind when anyone would approach the front door for a good two years, ages 11 and 12.

Fast foward to my work today. I have spent the better part of my adult life as a child advocate and worked in support of families and their children. Teaching parents, children, student teachers, student nurses and other ECE professionals, and I have administered early childhood education programs.

I would encourage you, why me, to reflect on what would happen to the children who are in childcare 10 hours per day were there no licensed care available. In some cases, yes, parents are materialistic money grabbers who aren't interested in providing parental care for their own children. For every one of those, there are children who are just like I was, who have no choice but to be placed in an early childhood program while their parents work and using state funded assistance programs.

Which would you rather have, why me? A child who is secure with adult care, supervision and curriculum or a child scared out of her mind because someone knocked on the front door?

You decide.

Shirley's Kid,
Jersey Girl
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_why me
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _why me »

Jersey Girl wrote:
I tend to agree that nothing can compensate for Moms staying home with their children so long as Mom is agreeable and feels statisfied by that situation. On another related thread, I asked you about parenting classes. You then, asked me where such classes might be found and I don't think I answered you.

Any community college or university with an early childhood program offers classes in child development and behavior guidance. Those are where I would begin were I a new or expecting parent.

When I see the LDS Church encouraging competency in parenting skills by offering parenting classes to their membership facilitated by a qualified facilitator or encouraging parents to avail themselves of child development and behavior guidance classes, or even stocking their libary shelves with good quality books on parenting such as those authored by professionals such as Dr. T. Berry Brazelton and others, then I will be happy to agree with you publicly, that the LDS "got it right".

And probably, not a minute sooner.

:-)

p.s. If I am not mistaken, BYU has a kick ass early childhood program. See? I know stuff. :-) How about encouraging members to enroll in a class or two?


If you have read the article that I linked to in the OP, you will see that the Finnish social services do believe that it is a problem for their young to be 10 hours in day care. This is not something that they are bragging about. And the consequences of such a happening are well known for the future of the child.

I do believe that perspective parents in Finland do need parenting classes. The problem is however a lack of funding for such programs. In fact, the reason why day care is becoming more croweded is because some centers have been closed for lack of funds. All are government sponsored.

And I don't think that private classes exist and the expenses would limit who would take such classes anyway. I think that what I am trying to say is that the family is under attack from a system that is greedy for money and which has become a profit before people system. The workplace is not family friendly.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
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_why me
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _why me »

hugh jass wrote:whyme has clearly demonstrated in past posts that he is no expert nor role model on anything related to marriage, raising children, or women. Well that is women who are clothed and not being paid to keep his credit card on file at several online websites.


My own children would disagree with you. I have been a very good father to my children and I am considered to be a nice guy by most people I know.

However, your judgementalism is noted. I am sure that you also had such judgementalism as a Mormon.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _why me »

MsJack wrote:These statements are right on the mark.

I'm wondering how many of these children who are in daycare 10 hours a day are the children of single mothers, and how many of these single mothers are supporting their children all by themselves because the father has abandoned them. It's just another testament to why me's sexism that he automatically assumes that the women are to blame for not staying home.


Actually hugh was a little off the mark, especially about my parenting and my former marriage. Also, there are of course single parents putting their child in daycare as there are single fathers. However, there are also all types of familes using the state daycare. It is a right to place a child in daycare. However, it makes no difference since work demands are becoming more demanding, keeping parents in the workplace longer. And this is the problem. Worklife used to be much more family friendly and understanding of workers' needs during the era of the welfare state.

Now of course, european societies are different. In italy, many busy Italians who have money hire nanny's or au-pairs to watch over their children. This is also true for germany, france, spain etc. And the grandparents come to the rescue of their children when it comes to parenting quite often. In fact, for many it is the grandparents who are raising the grandchildren when the parents are working.

But in scandinavia, it is the state that does the raising and the amount of time that a daycare worker can spend with each child is extremely limited because of the large number of children in their care.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _why me »

Blixa wrote:
Still sexist and dumb. And not nearly "mute" enough...

(To quote Darth J, "must.resist.double entendre.")


I believe that you are an university teacher but not in the social sciences. I think that you need to read up on some of the problems that children are facing in their respective societies and see just what kind of solutions are needed to protect children from abusive and wayward parenting. The situation in Russia and in scandinavia are nothing to brag about. In fact, many women in Norway have been raped or experienced aspects of domestic violence. And the children are not immune since it is generational.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/world ... malefactor

If you remember I disagreed with our norwegian friend on the other thread about norway. This came out in the new york times a couple of days ago. I do know what I am talking about.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _harmony »

why me wrote:But in scandinavia, it is the state that does the raising and the amount of time that a daycare worker can spend with each child is extremely limited because of the large number of children in their care.


What does day care in Finland have to do with family life in the USA? Or even Utah?
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
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