Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

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_why me
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _why me »

harmony wrote:
What does day care in Finland have to do with family life in the USA? Or even Utah?


It has to do with parenting. On a different thread I did mentioned finland as an example of wayward parenting and the affects that this has on a child later in life. It was in the context of that thread. I just linked in my OP here to something that was related to what I was writing on that thread because it supported what I was writing at that time. The research just came out. However, across the board, parents are losing their ability to be parents because of work situations and a skewed value structure. My contention is that the church got it right with its stress on family nights and being present for family dinners, and praying together etc.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

why me

If you have read the article that I linked to in the OP, you will see that the Finnish social services do believe that it is a problem for their young to be 10 hours in day care. This is not something that they are bragging about. And the consequences of such a happening are well known for the future of the child.

I do believe that perspective parents in Finland do need parenting classes. The problem is however a lack of funding for such programs. In fact, the reason why day care is becoming more croweded is because some centers have been closed for lack of funds. All are government sponsored.



That may well be true of Finland. I have not researched nor studied Finnish childcare systems. At the same time, you can take the childcare systems of Norway and hold them up as a gold standard model of best practice for the entire world and yes, that includes the USA.

You do realize that childcare systems exist in other countries outside of Finland, do you not?

When you say that the LDS "got it right" I assume that you are not referring simply to Finnish LDS but LDS as a global religious group. As you can see, BYU operates it's own childcare program for 4 year olds that functions as a lab school for their ECE department. This particularly preschool, why me, is reference in college texts for Early Childhood Education students. I have worked with one ECP (early childhood professional) who was schooled in that lab school and also LDS. It is where she earned her degree.

Given the above, I do not see where LDS is against good programs for young children. The graduates of the ECE program (students, not the children) take their art out into the world in all sorts of situations including those that I listed in an earlier post. If you look online you will clearly see that there are LDS mothers operating licensened programs in their own homes. These are located in the area of BYU and presumably, intended to serve children of LDS students at BYU itself.


And I don't think that private classes exist and the expenses would limit who would take such classes anyway. I think that what I am trying to say is that the family is under attack from a system that is greedy for money and which has become a profit before people system. The workplace is not family friendly.



The types of classes I mentioned are not private classes. They are early childhood classes that can be taken at any community college or university as well as at BYU. Any economically disadvantaged parent can take such classes via financial aid with essentially no out of pocket expenses except for possibly, text books.

Further, most licensed and especially programs accredited by the NAEYC regularly welcome visitors to their programs for tours. During those tours, one can observe and later, perhaps volunteer to aid staff in a classroom of any age group (so long as they meet state requirements such as background checks) and essentially receive FREE parenting classes on site.

There is NO excuse in today's world (given the presence of google) that any parent should neglect their need to build parenting skills. They can essentially be had FREE of cost and also through colleges in any state.

why me, you don't know all there is to know about what is out there for families or young children. While Finland may have substandard care for young children, they are not the bellwether of doom for the rest of humanity and their offspring.

While the gospel may suffice in terms of the philosophical underpinnings of LDS family life, it is not a replacement for good parenting skills.

(MY. GOD. Jersey Girl wrote TWO serious posts in one day on MDB...watershed moment for sure. :-)
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

why me wrote:
Blixa wrote:
Still sexist and dumb. And not nearly "mute" enough...

(To quote Darth J, "must.resist.double entendre.")


I believe that you are an university teacher but not in the social sciences. I think that you need to read up on some of the problems that children are facing in their respective societies and see just what kind of solutions are needed to protect children from abusive and wayward parenting. The situation in Russia and in scandinavia are nothing to brag about. In fact, many women in Norway have been raped or experienced aspects of domestic violence. And the children are not immune since it is generational.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/world ... malefactor

If you remember I disagreed with our norwegian friend on the other thread about norway. This came out in the new york times a couple of days ago. I do know what I am talking about.


You are right about Blixa. How about talk to me? I have taught adoptees from Russia, Romania and China.

What do you believe are the solutions to these situations and do you believe that the state operated childcare situations for Russian, Romanian and Chinese adoptees are all equally detrimental to an child's well being?

ETA: Vietnamese adoptees as well.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Morley
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _Morley »


This article is about sexual assault in a country with a significant degree of gender equity. I has nothing to do with children spending time in daycare. You're grasping at straws.
_just me
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _just me »

Morley wrote:

This article is about sexual assault in a country with a significant degree of gender equity. I has nothing to do with children spending time in daycare. You're grasping at straws.


This.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
_Blixa
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _Blixa »

Morley wrote:

This article is about sexual assault in a country with a significant degree of gender equity. I has nothing to do with children spending time in daycare. You're grasping at straws.


Exactly. Also, people have taken issue with whyne's insistence that out of both parents it should be the mother who stays home with the children (and the corollary absurdity that women without children should find work caring for them).

Instead of addressing his sexist assumptions, he flings out a link which I guess is supposed to stand in for some kind of garbled conceptual algebra:

"My opponents are against sexism, therefore they are on the same side as places like "Scandinavia;" however since there are still problems with sexist behaviors and domestic violence in "Scandinavia," we can conclude "the LDS got it right."
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_why me
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _why me »

Morley wrote:This article is about sexual assault in a country with a significant degree of gender equity. I has nothing to do with children spending time in daycare. You're grasping at straws.

On the other thread I did post a link about alcohol abuse among the youth. I just supplemented it with the domestic violence link. As I said on the other thread, Norway and finland are not perfect by a long shot. In fact, both countries would be considered a moderately large city in the US if one goes by population. And if they were moderately large cities, they would be considered dysfunctional. And much has to do with parenting and the lack of parenting skills.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _why me »

Blixa wrote:
Exactly. Also, people have taken issue with whyne's insistence that out of both parents it should be the mother who stays home with the children (and the corollary absurdity that women without children should find work caring for them).



I don't believe that I said such a thing that women should find work caring for them. I think that that was said by a critic who did not base his statement on fact. It would not have been the first time that such a thing happened.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _why me »

Blixa wrote:
Instead of addressing his sexist assumptions, he flings out a link which I guess is supposed to stand in for some kind of garbled conceptual algebra:

"My opponents are against sexism, therefore they are on the same side as places like "Scandinavia;" however since there are still problems with sexist behaviors and domestic violence in "Scandinavia," we can conclude "the LDS got it right."


And what sexist assumptions are you implying. If I think that women are best to care for a child, I don't think that that is sexist at all. Children need parents but not just parents but good parents who have good parenting skills. And this is becoming in short supply in the western world as families are becoming fractured and distant.

I do believe that the LDS got it right about the family. They are widely admired for their family values. And in this world today that is an achievement. Very few LDS youth are getting bombed as they are in finland, russia and norway. Not to mention in other western societies.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Morley
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Re: Children spend up to 10 hours a day in day care.

Post by _Morley »

why me wrote:
Morley wrote:.... As I said on the other thread, Norway and finland are not perfect by a long shot. In fact, both countries would be considered a moderately large city in the US if one goes by population. And if they were moderately large cities, they would be considered dysfunctional. And much has to do with parenting and the lack of parenting skills.


What?! How would Norway and Finland be considered dysfunctional? In what areas do either of these counties compare unfavorably to average 'moderately large cities' in the US? If you have statistics, please cough them up.
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