Daniel Peterson's Article on Book of Mormon in Deseret News

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_Morley
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Re: Daniel Peterson's Article on Book of Mormon in Deseret News

Post by _Morley »

why me wrote:
Themis wrote:
by the way he did not die for any book.


He did. If he knew that the book was a fraud and he was in on it, and then he was arrested because of a different reason, and murdered, we can say that it all started with a book that he used to mock god. He died for a book.


Joseph was murdered for many reasons. That he had written The Book of Mormon was the least of them.
_Themis
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Re: Daniel Peterson's Article on Book of Mormon in Deseret News

Post by _Themis »

why me wrote:
I am asking you the questions.


You asked questions you then went on to answer them. I challenged those answers by asking how you know this. You are making some claims here that I think are not just incorrect, but not thought out at all. You still seem to think people cannot get away with things, nor have you seriously considered how Joseph or others could make up the Book of Mormon. You also assume Emma could not be involved, when we know she has lied about Joseph, and she ran off with him knowing he was a treasure hunter with his rock in a hat.

Can you answer them? Plus, we tend to forget the rough drafts for such an undertaking. The poor guy had to remember to collect all the scapes, notes, mistake papers left on the floor or table and never let on that he was writing a book to dupe the world.


How could anyone remember to collect their scrapes and notes. I am sure no one has ever thought to burn them when done either. Some have already shown that Joseph had years to formulate a story in his mind. People can do amazing things, even if most cannot. I don't conclude from any possibilities I may entertain on how Joseph did it. There is not enough evidence, which should not be surprising from someone who is trying to hide this. There is more then enough evidence to conclude the Book of Mormon is a 19th fiction.

The persecution began with the publication of the Book of Mormon.


Not really. Serious persecution happened later, and it's reasons are far more complex and not one sided.

He did. If he knew that the book was a fraud and he was in on it, and then he was arrested because of a different reason, and murdered, we can say that it all started with a book that he used to mock god. He died for a book.


Not really. The Book of Mormon did not really factor into it, nor would admitting it was a fraud have saved him. It started by making other decisions, many of them not good ones. The last to destroy a press was the last bad decision, and unfortunately he got murdered for it. Again it is more complex and not one sided.
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_Simon Belmont

Re: Daniel Peterson's Article on Book of Mormon in Deseret News

Post by _Simon Belmont »

sock puppet wrote:Sylvester Stallone wrote the screenplay for Rocky in just three days time (by one account, 20 straight hours by another account--sort of like changes to the accounts of the first vision). It resulted in an Oscar nomination for Stallone for best screenplay, and a movie winning the 1976 best picture and best director Academy Awards. (Stallone lost out only to Paddy Chayefsky for the brilliant screenplay written for Network.)

Does this prove that god had to be involved in writing of the Rocky screenplay and that it is true? (by the way, I have it on good authority that there has been as much archaeological evidence found to support the historicity of Rocky storyline as the storyline of the Book of Mormon. In both instances, the quantum of that evidence is bupkis.)


I didn't realize Rocky was a worldwide religion with millions of members.
_sock puppet
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Re: Daniel Peterson's Article on Book of Mormon in Deseret News

Post by _sock puppet »

Simon Belmont wrote:
sock puppet wrote:Sylvester Stallone wrote the screenplay for Rocky in just three days time (by one account, 20 straight hours by another account--sort of like changes to the accounts of the first vision). It resulted in an Oscar nomination for Stallone for best screenplay, and a movie winning the 1976 best picture and best director Academy Awards. (Stallone lost out only to Paddy Chayefsky for the brilliant screenplay written for Network.)

Does this prove that god had to be involved in writing of the Rocky screenplay and that it is true? (by the way, I have it on good authority that there has been as much archaeological evidence found to support the historicity of Rocky storyline as the storyline of the Book of Mormon. In both instances, the quantum of that evidence is bupkis.)


I didn't realize Rocky was a worldwide religion with millions of members.

Have you not seen Rocky?

By the way, neither was Mormonism a worldwide religion with millions of members when the Book of Mormon was produced, truth or fiction.
_Simon Belmont

Re: Daniel Peterson's Article on Book of Mormon in Deseret News

Post by _Simon Belmont »

sock puppet wrote:Have you not seen Rocky?


Don't get me wrong: there should be a Rocky religion!

By the way, neither was Mormonism a worldwide religion with millions of members when the Book of Mormon was produced, truth or fiction.


But it is now, because of the fruits of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. The fruits of the coming forth of Rocky are simply an awesome movie.
_why me
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Re: Daniel Peterson's Article on Book of Mormon in Deseret News

Post by _why me »

Morley wrote:

He really only had to dupe Emma. And we all know how well Joseph was able to dupe Emma.


He had to dupe more people than just emma. He also had to dupe 11 other people, plus his brothers and sisters and parents. All convinced that he could not write this book himself.

The amount of paper involved would have been enormous for Joseph Smith. No one to my knowledge claimed that young joe was in the general store buying a lot of paper or pens or ink. Plus, there is the money angle and the time spent away from other work to write such a book. No one told of any disappearances for days on end. The writing of the book did not occur just with emma but with his parents and the cabin was just too small for such an undertaking. Now lets look at it this way: feathered pen, no electricity, inkwells, paper. Writing with a feathered pen was not an easy undertaking and it is quite sloppy with many blotches and ink stains on fingers. Not easy to wash off. When all the rough drafts are considered and rewrites, the time spent would be huge. And to carefully gather every crumbled paper, ink stain washed away, and broken pens etc, well, I don't think that he could go uncovered.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_ludwigm
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Re: Daniel Peterson's Article on Book of Mormon in Deseret News

Post by _ludwigm »

why me wrote:
Morley wrote:He really only had to dupe Emma. And we all know how well Joseph was able to dupe Emma.
He had to dupe more people than just emma. He also had to dupe 11 other people, plus his brothers and sisters and parents. All convinced that he could not write this book himself.

He DID dupe 14 million (or 4-5-6 million) people, up to now. +11 doesn't count...


why me wrote:... would have been ...
... would have been ...

The most frequently used tense by apologists.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_why me
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Re: Daniel Peterson's Article on Book of Mormon in Deseret News

Post by _why me »

sock puppet wrote:
Does this prove that god had to be involved in writing of the Rocky screenplay and that it is true? (by the way, I have it on good authority that there has been as much archaeological evidence found to support the historicity of Rocky storyline as the storyline of the Book of Mormon. In both instances, the quantum of that evidence is bupkis.)


Rocky had a natural talent and he certainly became rich because of it. However, I don't see the comparisons. Did Rocky stick his head in a hat and write the screenplay? Or did he have a manucript complete with typewriter and paper and ballpoint pens? Plus, electricity? And was he writing this screenplay in secret or did he tell his parents his plans?

Also, if Joseph wrote the book we have no idea how long it took to write this book. Certainly the hat trick would be a trick. But he would have needed a manucript in the beginning. How long did it take for him to develop the story line? How long did it take to do the actual writing? When did he find time to do the actual writing? Why keep the novel a secret? Did he really want to found a new church? This could have been done without the Book of Mormon. And what happened to the orginal manucript?

The translation process was the end, not the beginning if he wrote the book. The whole process took some time to hatch. And there is nothing in the past to show that he was actively researching for this book.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
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Re: Daniel Peterson's Article on Book of Mormon in Deseret News

Post by _why me »

ludwigm wrote:He DID dupe 14 million (or 4-5-6 million) people, up to now. +11 doesn't count...


First we need a motive for the book. Then, we need to piece together when he would have time to write it. We know that during the translation process it took a certain amount of days. But the Book of Mormon is too complex to sit down and write it when a head is in a hat. Plus, the original 11 witnesses were the biggest dupes. How did he do it? For the three witnesses, he needed some plates with strange letters on them, a breastplate and an good actor to play an angel. When did he find the time to write a book and engrave plates and for what purpose? Then, he needed a set of good plates with strange letters on them to show the eight witnesses and have them feel them. Quite a good engraver was necessary for this feat. And emma needed to be clueless and if she was in on the fraud, she was a sociopath for sure.

Here is the deal. He probably would have made some money for this book if he did not put all the relgious fluff around its publication. Much better to write the novel, get a good editor, and publish the book. It certainly would have been successful because it played into the mindset of the inhabitants. And then go on to write other books.

When the book was published it was boycotted by the inhabitants of palmyra and the surrounding areas. No one wanted to touch this book. So, he must have been kicking his butt because of the relgious fluff. The inhabitants would have purchased the book if it were advertized as a novel.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Drifting
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Re: Daniel Peterson's Article on Book of Mormon in Deseret News

Post by _Drifting »

why me wrote:
Here is the deal. He probably would have made some money for this book if he did not put all the relgious fluff around its publication.



Well, we at least know for sure that he did try and profit from selling the copyright...
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
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