Why aren't we designed better if there is an ID?

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Quasimodo
_Emeritus
Posts: 11784
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:11 am

Re: Why aren't we designed better if there is an ID?

Post by _Quasimodo »

mentalgymnast wrote:No. He designed us with possibilities for imperfection and less than optimal functions for the reasons I mentioned. That's not the same as designing us poorly.

Regards,
MG


How about an alternate explanation.

For over a hundred thousand years or so all of us were hunter/ gatherers. We moved from one camp to the next as the resources ran out. As we ate all the bunnies and deer as well as all of the nuts and berries, it was necessary to move many miles to the next good hunting and gathering location.

Food resources were scarce. The available food would only support a limited number of people.

The genetic value of adults was based on their ability to ensure the survival of the young. When one reached the age of a grandparent (40 or 50 in those days) one became less valuable to the family group. Traveling 30 or 40 miles to the next good hunting location became very difficult for older members of the group. Death by natural causes at 50 was a better alternative to being left behind to die of starvation.

I've read one account of pioneers finding an old Indian in Death Valley that had been left behind by his family because he could no longer make the journey. They did what they could for him, but they had to leave him behind, as well.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_mentalgymnast

Re: Why aren't we designed better if there is an ID?

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Some Schmo wrote:...a new car ... [has a] front axle [that breaks] soon after [purchase]. [Is]that poor design or a possibility for imperfection and less than optimal functionality?


Do cars purport to have souls capable of agency/growth and to also travel along a road called Eternal Progression? The fact that a car may have been poorly designed has no correlative value in regards to the point that I'm making.

Regards,
MG
_Some Schmo
_Emeritus
Posts: 15602
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:59 pm

Re: Why aren't we designed better if there is an ID?

Post by _Some Schmo »

mentalgymnast wrote:Do cars purport to have souls capable of agency/growth and to also travel along a road called Eternal Progression? The fact that a car may have been poorly designed has no correlative value in regards to the point that I'm making.

Of course not. Cars don't purport anything.

But that doesn't get you out of the question of good vs poor design, and what qualifies as each. Just because one's human and the other isn't is not relevant to the quality of design question.

Basically, as already indicated by your previous post, you think it's OK for god to design us poorly (i.e. not design us for optimal mechanical performance) because causing us pain (both physical and mental) is his thing... apparently because it's good for us. Essentially you're saying one man's poor design is another gods successful design. It's good because it's bad. He meant to do that.

And like I said, I find it amazing the lengths people will go to in order to defend their sadistic god, to the point where they can't even see their god as the sadist they're describing.

It's quite remarkable.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Hughes
_Emeritus
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:53 pm

Re: Why aren't we designed better if there is an ID?

Post by _Hughes »

just me wrote:I was wondering last night why human bodies are designed so poorly if there is an Intellegent Designer behind it all.

Don't get me wrong, I think human bodies are pretty amazing and they fascinate me. I just wonder why they aren't made better.

One example I was thinking about was the danger of childbirth. If having children is so important (which it is in LDS theology) why make it so dangerous? It really isn't until recently that childbirth has become a much more safe proposition for women of the earth. Heck, being born and infancy has also been a very precarious time for most of history.

I'm obviously not the first person to think about these things. Here are some things that scientists came up with. It's pretty neat.


If there's an Intelligent Designer?

If there's a poor design, that indicates there's a designer (which is the purpose of the ID movement, to detect designed things)

If there's a designer, and that designer is the God of the Bible, how does the curse effect what we look like today?

If there's a designer, what does that do to the theory of evolution?

If there's a poor design, and it *happened* yesterday, that indicates an poor design on purpose.

If it didn't happen recently, then it's likely that other events may have eroded, or messed up or devolved said design.
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Why aren't we designed better if there is an ID?

Post by _Drifting »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Some Schmo wrote:So god designed us poorly on purpose?


No. He designed us with possibilities for imperfection and less than optimal functions for the reasons I mentioned. That's not the same as designing us poorly.

Regards,
MG


So cancer is just a deliberate part of Gods plan to help us learn. Got it.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: Why aren't we designed better if there is an ID?

Post by _Buffalo »

Hughes wrote:
If there's an Intelligent Designer?

If there's a poor design, that indicates there's a designer (which is the purpose of the ID movement, to detect designed things)

If there's a designer, and that designer is the God of the Bible, how does the curse effect what we look like today?

If there's a designer, what does that do to the theory of evolution?

If there's a poor design, and it *happened* yesterday, that indicates an poor design on purpose.

If it didn't happen recently, then it's likely that other events may have eroded, or messed up or devolved said design.


Evolutionary biology has already determined that regardless of "design" quality, no designer is necessary.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_stemelbow
_Emeritus
Posts: 5872
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:40 pm

Re: Why aren't we designed better if there is an ID?

Post by _stemelbow »

just me wrote:There is no possible way for our bodies to become indestructible in their current form. Do you have any ideas of how that could be possible?


I'm not sure what you're asking. Its also impossible, as far as we comprehend to live again. With religion many things are impossible in the secular sense. For me, the possibility for an "indestructible" immortal body is made through the eternal laws of atonement.
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: Why aren't we designed better if there is an ID?

Post by _Buffalo »

stemelbow wrote:
just me wrote:There is no possible way for our bodies to become indestructible in their current form. Do you have any ideas of how that could be possible?


I'm not sure what you're asking. Its also impossible, as far as we comprehend to live again. With religion many things are impossible in the secular sense. For me, the possibility for an "indestructible" immortal body is made through the eternal laws of atonement.


Perhaps we'll be resurrected as Kryptonians, and the yellow sun will endow us with super powers and invulnerability to bullets!
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Some Schmo
_Emeritus
Posts: 15602
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:59 pm

Re: Why aren't we designed better if there is an ID?

Post by _Some Schmo »

Buffalo wrote:Perhaps we'll be resurrected as Kryptonians, and the yellow sun will endow us with super powers and invulnerability to bullets!

Better than being resurrected as a Kolobian and being a total douche.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_EAllusion
_Emeritus
Posts: 18519
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Re: Why aren't we designed better if there is an ID?

Post by _EAllusion »

The reason that humans are so susceptible to back pain is that our bipedal stance is a jerry-rigged system that evolved from quadrapeds. It's quite inefficient and apt to produce problems and subsequent pain as people age. And for those who have experienced it, chronic back pain is terrible.

So, does that mean we were poorly designed? Well, that depends. If the designer wanted you to be likely to suffer from bad back pain at some point in your life, then the designer did awesome. Whether or not a designer did a "good job" depends on what the designer's aims were. If you point out that back pain is an evil aim that a good God shouldn't have, then you've just expressed another iteration of the problem of evil.
Post Reply