When you say Abraham wrote on 'the papyrus' to which papyrus are you referring? The one the Church currently owns, the one that was attached to the facsimiles, the 'lost' papyrus, or some other papyrus?
Likely some other; the one he actually wrote on.
So you believe that when Joseph said "written by his own hand on the papyrus" he was really saying "written by his own hand on the papyrus, but not this one, then translated into code and inserted at a later date as a hidden message in this papyrus which is a common funeral text".
It's a real worry that Joseph never really said what it is that apologists now say he meant to say.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
So you believe that when Joseph said "written by his own hand on the papyrus" he was really saying "written by his own hand on the papyrus, but not this one, then translated into code and inserted at a later date as a hidden message in this papyrus which is a common funeral text".
Not necessarily.
It's a real worry that Joseph never really said what it is that apologists now say he meant to say.
That his words could have meant that Abraham was the original author and not the one whose hand penned the actual papyri in question is quite plausible.
So you believe that when Joseph said "written by his own hand on the papyrus" he was really saying "written by his own hand on the papyrus, but not this one, then translated into code and inserted at a later date as a hidden message in this papyrus which is a common funeral text".
Not necessarily.
It's a real worry that Joseph never really said what it is that apologists now say he meant to say.
That his words could have meant that Abraham was the original author and not the one whose hand penned the actual papyri in question is quite plausible.
Sadly, this kind of conjecture is exactly the point of the thread. To follow it you are throwing Joseph under the bus.
By his own hand = by someone else's hand On the papyrus = on some other papyrus
Following that method you are forced to accept that when Joseph said Abraham he could have meant Hor. It's got the same possibility wether you see that or not.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
That his words could have meant that Abraham was the original author and not the one whose hand penned the actual papyri in question is quite plausible.
Sadly, this kind of conjecture is exactly the point of the thread. To follow it you are throwing Joseph under the bus.
I don't see how. This line of reasoning accepts Joseph Smith's words at face value only a meaning that's just as plausible is applied. And since the answer is just as plausible, aren't the antiMormons forcing something?
Sadly, this kind of conjecture is exactly the point of the thread. To follow it you are throwing Joseph under the bus.
I don't see how. This line of reasoning accepts Joseph Smith's words at face value only a meaning that's just as plausible is applied. And since the answer is just as plausible, aren't the antiMormons forcing something?
No I don't see it that way. Taking Joseph's words at face value is the most reasonable position to take. Unfortunately his words aren't supported by the available, tangible facts, without twisting them to mean something else. It is apologists who are trying to force Joseph's words to read differently to the way they actually do.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Unfortunately his words aren't supported by the available, tangible facts, without twisting them to mean something else. It is apologists who are trying to force Joseph's words to read differently to the way they actually do.
Unfortunately his words aren't supported by the available, tangible facts, without twisting them to mean something else. It is apologists who are trying to force Joseph's words to read differently to the way they actually do.
I notice you have no evidence to support this.
Evidence supporting this: 1. Joseph's own words "written by his own hand upon the papyrus" 2. Your posts on this thread 3. Any mopologetic piece about where the Book of Abraham came from
What evidence do you have supporting your position?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Unfortunately his words aren't supported by the available, tangible facts, without twisting them to mean something else. It is apologists who are trying to force Joseph's words to read differently to the way they actually do.
I notice you have no evidence to support this.
There's no evidence to support that Joseph Smith meant what he said? Are you sure you want to go with that one?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.