Joseph Smith turning back to Certain Death

[_Spurven Ten Sing]

If you read RSR, you will see that Smith tended towards nihilistic fatalism when things when wrong. He said similar things, certain to die when he was arrested in Missouri for attacking the Gentiles.

[_Nightlion]

Where did I hear that is was well over 100,000 at least in great sympathy if not official members? If he had done exploits who knows how many would have run after him? If that was his intent he would have left before the Nauvoo Expositor happened. As soon as he was certain that betrayers had commenced their treason. What happened to him being crowned king and taking the leadership of the whole earth? What disheartened him? Treason. Long before the Law brothers printing press was considered.

You see him as something of a fallen prophet?

No! Not in the least. Have you no imagination what was going on? He had the task of reinventing Christianity at the Zion level. God commanded the particulars but could not cause people to get it right. The Lord early on rebuked them for taking it lightly. The Protestant influence was huge and daunting. That people came into the Church immature and under-initiated. With little power to stay even after glorious experiences. It was miraculous like Moses leading the children of Israel out of Egypt with a stretched out arm, yet those children refused to be sanctified and the Lord nearly destroyed them for it.

Missionaries went out and converted thousands after their own image of the Restoration. Zion was not sending out missionaries. It was a new Church that never got it legs under it. Joseph lamented the debacle near the end. And that was only fifteen years. Nothing for growing mature from scratch. Zion never happened. Moses got no Zion either. It does not make them fallen prophets.

[_Nightlion]

And yet BY was guided to the Apocalrock or just coincidence?

Joseph Smith described for Brigham precisely where to set up the headquarters of the Church in front of Ensign Peak. Which happens to be on the square to The Apocalrock. After the virtue of the Restoration was established each generation has a clean and perfect shot at getting it right regardless of the apostasy or ignorance or distractedness of previous generations. Until it is enough and the Lord withdraws his virtue and the Church is left utterly fallen.

[_Nightlion]

If you read RSR, you will see that Smith tended towards nihilistic fatalism when things when wrong. He said similar things, certain to die when he was arrested in Missouri for attacking the Gentiles.

Arrested for attacking the Gentiles. LOL

[_Fanny Alger]

Thank you for the reply and I am glad you made this point because you would think Fawn Brodie would suggest in No Man Knows My History that "Joseph DIDN'T think he was going back for certain death." To my surprise she makes it CRYSTAL clear that he did think and was CONVINCED that he would be put to death. . . So, the question is where is it cited that Joseph Smith thought he was going back to face a trial? Is that just speculation? If anyone would have cited such a notion I am sure it would have been Brodie.

This surprises me, because I can swear that Brodie is the one from whom I learned the above in the first place

I was convinced that Brodie herself wrote about Joseph consulting with his lawyers and drawing up his defense for the inevitable trial.

The fact that you're claiming Brodie DIDN'T say such a thing sort of throws me for a loop. Perhaps I read about it in Quinn?

I don't know...I hear Church critics bring this up but I have never seen it cited anywhere.

[_Willy Law]

I was convinced that Brodie herself wrote about Joseph consulting with his lawyers and drawing up his defense for the inevitable trial.

The fact that you're claiming Brodie DIDN'T say such a thing sort of throws me for a loop. Perhaps I read about it in Quinn?

Quinn does talk about Joseph writing to Dunham and ordering him to bring the Nauvoo Legion to Carthage to free him. Dunham felt that there would be a violent battle at Carthage and, even if successful, the mobs would descend on and destroy Nauvoo. If I recall correctly Dunham was later excommunicated for not following Joseph's orders.
I don't remember Quinn talking about drawing up a defense with an attorney but I'll check Mormon Hierarchy when I get home from work tonight.