Joseph Smith's Personal Claim to Fame.

[_Fence Sitter]

I think what we are pointing out MG, is that Joseph's name isn't to be had, for good or for evil, among all nations.

176 nations/territories and counting.

Regards,
MG

You know it would probably be a simple thing to take out a small innocuous newspaper add in the remaining countries that contained Joseph Smith's name and you could fulfill the prophecy yourself.

[_mentalgymnast]

there seem to be many around these parts that are died in the wool and dogmatically opposed to listening to or reading anything that could alter their set in stone world view in regards to the church and Joseph Smith, so I don't expect there will be many takers on this invite.

Says the person who summarily dismisses the Strangites as a "footnote in history."

Which the CofJCofLDS isn't.

See the difference?

Regards,
MG

[_Darth J]

...what is objectively unique and amazing about your version of "Joseph Smith's message" compared to other religious movements by other religious visionaries started within shouting distance of the Second Great Awakening?

Let's start here: [/snip]

You're moving the goalposts again.

At first, your argument was about the "way" that "Joseph Smith's message" has gone forth in the world, which is allegedly unique. You are inviting a comparison to other denominations, but suddenly abandoning the numbers game you have invited when the facts don't support the conclusion everyone was supposed to draw.

Now you are talking about doctrinal uniqueness.

Seventh-day Adventists, Assemblies of God, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Christians Scientists---just to name a few---also have doctrines that are unique from other religious denominations.

Various branches of Mormonism also have doctrines that are unique from each other. You don't think you have the same concept of the Holy Ghost as a Bickertonite would, do you?

And by the way, the FLDS Church believes in all of the doctrines in your list. The name of Joseph Smith also gained notoriety with all the press reports about the raid on the YFZ Ranch and the prosecution of criminal cases in Utah and Texas against Warren Jeffs and other FLDS leaders.

Why don't you tell us about how the FLDS Church is bringing the prophecy attributed to Joseph Smith to pass? Do you just have set-in-stone views about the church and Joseph Smith?

[_Darth J]

The Strangites are still around and believe that they are the continuation of the church started by Joseph Smith.

You don't want to play the numbers game, remember?

Numbers or not, the Strangites are a footnote to history.

Regards,
MG

A footnote to WHOSE history? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a going concern with active, living adherents.

Are they not the true church because they have fewer (alleged) members than the LDS Church? Are you still on that bandwagon fallacy?

[_mentalgymnast]

Are we playing the numbers game, or not?

The point that some have been attempting to make is that the CofJCofLDS is an isolated and unaccounted for whipper snapper religious organization without any influence or merit worth considering outside of the Rocky Mountain region. I'm showing, at least statistically, that this is not the case...as though it needed to even be a point of controversy.

Interesting.

No, we're not playing the numbers game. And yes, before you bring it up, you can have it both ways. This point of reference will most likely be your next attack.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

...here are some of her predictions about Christian Science going forth...

Where is her prophecy regarding that her name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people?

I'm not seeing it.

Regards,
MG

[_Darth J]

there seem to be many around these parts that are died in the wool and dogmatically opposed to listening to or reading anything that could alter their set in stone world view in regards to the church and Joseph Smith, so I don't expect there will be many takers on this invite.

Says the person who summarily dismisses the Strangites as a "footnote in history."

Which the CofJCofLDS isn't.

See the difference?

Regards,
MG

Of course I see the difference. You are equivocating between relative terms and absolute terms, because folk apologetics, as Stakhanovite as called it, involves a great amount of LDS solipsism.

You are LDS, not a Strangite, so you want to dismiss The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as a "footnote" because that church is small compared to the number of members that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints pretends to have. So from your perspective, the Strangites are a footnote to history.

From the perspective of a Strangite, however, they are not history at all, but the church that was restored by the Prophet Joseph Smith and the man the Lord chose as his successor, James Strang.

Because you are LDS, you think that the LDS Church is not merely a footnote to history, based on your perspective that in absolute terms, the number of members the LDS Church pretends to have is significant. But relative to the human race in general, and relative to Islam, Catholicism, Buddhism, Protestantism, etc., Mormonism---whether in general or specifically the LDS version of it---is just a footnote to history.

[_mentalgymnast]

Now you are talking about doctrinal uniqueness.

Yep, that's what you were asking for.

Delivered.

Regards,
MG

[_Darth J]

...here are some of her predictions about Christian Science going forth...

Where is her prophecy regarding that her name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people?

I'm not seeing it.

Regards,
MG

I never said she made the exact same prophecy about herself as a ghost writer attributed to Joseph Smith years after the alleged event. I said that other religious visionaries made similar claims about their religious movements being significant in the world.

[_Darth J]

Now you are talking about doctrinal uniqueness.

Yep, that's what you were asking for.

Delivered.

Regards,
MG

No, it isn't. I am asking about uniqueness about a prediction attributed to Joseph Smith about his notoriety versus what other religious visionaries said about their own movements going out in the world.