Is it moral to stiff creditors while paying a full tithe?

[_LDS truthseeker]

It is absolutely immoral to make a charitable contribution instead of paying your legally obligated bills. Yet, the church advocates it.

Family Home Evening Lesson on Tithing
From the Church's website is a lesson on tithing to be taught to children and families. It comes from the lesson manual Family Home Evening Resource Book, Lesson Ideas, Tithing, 227

The lesson provides the following activity game to stress that payment of tithing to the church has to come before anything, ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING:

The following game can stimulate discussion on the law of tithing.

Have one of the children leave the room and remain out of hearing range until called. Have the rest of the family make paper signs as follows:

Tithes and offerings

Rent or house payment

Groceries

Service station

Insurance

Car payment

Members of the family or empty chairs can represent these various businesses or expenditures. Prepare play money totaling $550 and give it to the child when he returns to the room.

Give him a list of monthly payments to be made, as follows:

Rent or house payment, $300

Groceries, $60

Service station, $40

Insurance, $30

Car payment, $76

Tithes and offerings (Tithing, $55; Fast offering, $7; Budget, $10)

Tell him to pay his bills as fast as he can. Observe what happens, and discuss the situation. There is not enough money to pay all of the bills and still pay a full tithing. What should he do?

Point out that you pay tithing first, and then you pay a portion of what you owe on each other bill. Talk about which areas you might be able to cut expenses in so that you can live within your budget. Paying the Lord first ensures his help and blessings in being able to budget the rest of your money successfully.



Critic's comment: Do Mormon parents really teach their kids to pay tithing like this? Pay it and then pay what you can of bills that are left? It doesn't even mention other family needs like clothing or car maintenance. It bothers me greatly that there is nothing in this lesson about asking the church for help. Just advice to only pay partial rent? If Junior follows that advice, he will surely have his whole family evicted! Their credit will stink as well. I don't think their landlord is going to care that they feel they have an obligation to pay tithing.

Our comment: This is so wrong, we don't know where to begin. We assume that in order to ensure that its members always pay a full tithing and never try to use "excuses" to pay less than a full tithe, the Church never allows any reason to get in the way of paying tithing. The teaching of short-changing every other legitimate person you owe money, to in order to pay the church a VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTION, is unthinkable.

Imagine if you were the mechanic that fixed the LDS man's car, wouldn't you expect and deserve to get paid? The lesson says that the good LDS man should only "pay a portion of what you owe on each bill". Why does the church, with all its billions, deserve a charitable donation instead of the mechanic, landlord, dentist, government, kid who cuts your grass, etc. that you legitimately and legally owe money to? Following that advice, the mechanic that is short-changed that month, will now have to short-change his doctor and the doctor will have to short-change his alimony payment, etc. Try short-changing the IRS or even a speeding ticket and see what happens.

Following the church's edict on tithing can be so irresponsible. Many people try to pay off their credit card balances every month. But following the church's counsel, if you had more bills than income in a month, you should short-change all other bills such as credit card bills. That means you would incur interest charges on your unpaid credit cards that you wouldn't normally have had as well as finance charges from any bill you didn't pay fully. So it would end up even costing you more following the church's directive.

We can only hope that good LDS people, that are struggling financially, ignore this teaching and pay their legitimate bills on time, as they are able, before paying any voluntary contributions.

http://www.mormonthink.com/tithing.htm#fhe

[_Everybody Wang Chung]

That's just a stupid question!

If you pay your tithing, the windows of heaven will be opened and you will somehow find you have enough to pay your other bills.

EVERYONE knows that!!

It's clear that Mormons in Utah are not paying their full tithing. It's the main reason that Utah is at or near the top in bankruptcy filings per capita each and every year. More tithing equals more financial blessings. It's a no-brainer.

[_ludwigm]

Family Home Evening Lesson on Tithing

You are lucky. You can count using Your fingers.
There are 14 million (7m? 4m? statistic?) who can't.

[_ajax18]

I guess you don't even have a choice if you were to consider paying your taxes before paying tithing. It looks like Caesar has usurped God's first place position by force.

I knew a man who opined that tithing was just as coercive as taxes. You either go to jail or you burn in hell. Both nonpayments carry consequences. There's not much voluntary about it from my perspective.

The toughest part for me is that I'm going to spend most of my life in debt. Most people live in debt not because of any major financial transgressions, but because that's the way the system is now. It takes borrowing a lot of money to make a monthly income. What do I really own? What is really even mine to give?

[_Tchild]

I guess it depends on the person's POV and moral compass.

If the person believes that God (paying the LDS church) comes first, then first priority must be God and the payment of tithes.

I personally find it repugnant, because God currently has eternal life, a perfected body, perfect knowledge and all of the loot he could ever need, while the human creditor probably has back pains, a wife who barely puts out, and a real need for repayment.

[_Hoops]

As it happens, I am in that exact situation. Except i am the creditee (word?). And this has happened to me with a half dozen LDS in the past. for what it's worth.

[_ajax18]

I still see a moral question because the money I used to make the money I'm making now didn't come from the Church. It came from my creditor. I wouldn't be making this money without my student loans. I wouldn't be eligible to make this money if I didn't have transportation to the job site, a working shower, and a washer and dryer for my clothes. Employers don't like stinky employees. I wouldn't be able to make this money if I were not fed, properly medicated and everything else it takes to make myself capable of doing the job. How can you place God before any of that?

[_DarkHelmet]

As it happens, I am in that exact situation. Except i am the creditee (word?). And this has happened to me with a half dozen LDS in the past. for what it's worth.

For clarification, as a creditee, you owe LDS money? What happened?

[_Jonah]

I mentioned on another thread that I have a 25-year old son who has Aspergers. Two years ago, against the wishes of my TBM ex-wife, I enrolled him in a Jr. College program that teaches adults with mental disabilities how to transition to living independently. He graduated in June, and landed a job that pays him $18,000 per year. He asked me to find him a place of his own (also against the wishes of the TBM ex), and I was able get him into a loft apartment a short bus ride from his work for $525/month. We sat down and budgeted everything out so he would be able to make it financially. Not by much (I contribute $125/month towards his rent), but he is able to make it. So now he has a job, his own place, does his own shopping, cooks his own meals, pays his own bills, is living independently. He still needs a little help and guidance (he always will), but still, I am one proud PaPa.

The other day I stopped by his place for a visit. While there I asked to see his checkbook just to make sure everything was balancing out. He resisted a little, but handed it over. I had not seen it for a few months, and I noticed that he was doing a great job keeping it balanced. I also noticed that beginning a couple months ago he started writing checks to his ward for tithing. I told him that we didn't budget tithing into his monthly expenses and he really couldn't afford it. I also mentioned that if he felt he could afford it, then he didn't need my monthly contribution towards his rent. I don't want to help him financially so he can give that money to the church. I asked why he started paying tithing and he said, "Mom told me I have to." According to her, she never told him to pay tithing...she just mentioned that if he wanted to be OBEDIENT, he would pay it. Ummm hmmm, yeah...nice manipulation of your mentally challenged son. Great mom. I told him to stop paying, he couldn't afford it, and that the church/god didn't need his cash. Oh, and if his mother had a problem with that, to tell her to give me a call. Heh heh heh.

One question I have is does the church have any policy about accepting (or not accepting) tithing from folks with disabilities? My son has NO CONCEPT of tithing. Or will the church take cash from anyone, in any amount, for any reason, at any time?

If this tithe paying continues I will be calling his Bishop to have a nice discussion of his taking advantage of my son. Disgusting.

[_LDS truthseeker]

If this tithe paying continues I will be calling his Bishop to have a nice discussion of his taking advantage of my son. Disgusting.

You should do it now anyway and demand the church refund his money or you will make a big stink about it.