Hoops wrote:As it happens, I am in that exact situation. Except i am the creditee (word?). And this has happened to me with a half dozen LDS in the past. for what it's worth.
For clarification, as a creditee, you owe LDS money? What happened?
I think he's saying Mormons have owed him money, but stiffed him to pay tithing.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
DarkHelmet wrote: I think he's saying Mormons have owed him money, but stiffed him to pay tithing.
Ahh. That makes sense. And it sucks. Funny thing is, when my wife and I were young newly married, we were both TBMs. To help make ends meet, my wife did daycare. She had a couple non-mormon kids and a couple Mormon kids. She had such a hard time getting paid from the Mormon parents, but the non-mormons always paid on time. When my wife complained about it to an older TBM family member he replied, "You never do business with a Mormon. Didn't you know that?" I'm not saying it's a statistical fact that Mormons stiff creditors, just a funny anecdotal story.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
Clearly not. I think the temple recommend interview says something about being honest with your fellow man. My father, however, defaulted on quite a few loans. I always wondered about that. He didn't have a problem with eating out and going to movies (which added up to hundreds of dollars a month), but he'd default on a payment to a creditor (which would've fallen within his dining & movie per diem). I remember him arguing with creditors on the phone... Tough stuff...
I think I'd prefer living a humble lifestyle, but paying the people who lent me money because if everyone neglected their duties and their promises then our civilization simply couldn't exist.
Eventually my parents filed a Chapter 11 (I think twice, frankly) thus depriving their creditors of recourse. How they maintained that temple recommend was beyond me...
V/R Dr. Cam "I pay my bills on time." NC for Me
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Clearly not. I think the temple recommend interview says something about being honest with your fellow man. My father, however, defaulted on quite a few loans. I always wondered about that. He didn't have a problem with eating out and going to movies (which added up to hundreds of dollars a month), but he'd default on a payment to a creditor (which would've fallen within his dining & movie per diem). I remember him arguing with creditors on the phone... Tough stuff...
I think I'd prefer living a humble lifestyle, but paying the people who lent me money because if everyone neglected their duties and their promises then our civilization simply couldn't exist.
Eventually my parents filed a Chapter 11 (I think twice, frankly) thus depriving their creditors of recourse. How they maintained that temple recommend was beyond me...
V/R Dr. Cam "I pay my bills on time." NC for Me
I believe Mormons call this bleeding the beast.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
God is the primary mortage holder and if the tenth belongs to God, it wasn't available to any other creditors in the first place so there's not even a question of ethics here.
So you would pay your tithing first, even if that meant others went to the wall, lost their jobs etc because they in turn didn't have the means to make ends meet?
Just as you would satisfy your primary mortgage holder before you paid the satellite TV bill even though it meant some satellite TV employees were losing their jobs.
bcspace wrote: Just as you would satisfy your primary mortgage holder before you paid the satellite TV bill even though it meant some satellite TV employees were losing their jobs.
Give me a C!
Give me a U!
Give me an L!
....
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Just as you would satisfy your primary mortgage holder before you paid the satellite TV bill even though it meant some satellite TV employees were losing their jobs.
Do you think the federal government would take issue with the idea that the Mormon Church is the primary mortgage holder and has the right to be paid first before taxes, student loans, alimony, and child support? Everything may belong to God, but whether it ever belonged to the working man busting his tale to earn the wage is debatable in my POV.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
Is it moral to stiff creditors while paying a full tithe?
bcspace wrote:God is the primary mortage holder and if the tenth belongs to God, it wasn't available to any other creditors in the first place so there's not even a question of ethics here.
Tithing is on net increase. So one should take Gross income less all taxes less reasonable living expenses including debt service for say a home and a car. The net is what you apply the 10% against.
Course most LDS don't do it this way because it is strongly implied that you pay 10% on gross before taxes and all. But that is not the way the scripture reads.