line upon line, precept on precept, our knowledge retreats?!

[_Sethbag]

I could probably sing that song by heart from Saturday's Warrior. The concept of "line upon line" is one I grew up with. There was this idea that line upon line we would get smarter, our knowledge would increase, our understanding would be expanded, etc.

Consider science from 1830 to the present, and we have indeed progressed line upon line, precept on precept.

Now consider LDS beliefs and teachings from 1830 to the present. Rather than make some sort of progress, we actually seem to "know" less and less over time. Former prophets, seers, and revelators who would boldly teach their "revealed truth" are replaced by prophets, seers, and revelators who timidly beg off with "I don't know that we believe that" and so forth.

What areas of LDS beliefs did "we" used to know a hell of a lot more than LDS will admit to being so sure of today? What examples can we provide? An obvious one to me is that we used to say straight up that we knew why blacks couldn't have the priesthood. Now nobody seems to know anymore. We used to know who were the ancestors of the Native Americans. Now we haven't a clue. We used to know that God was once a human being on some other planet, who progressed and became exalted. Now we just can't say for sure. Wierd.

[_asbestosman]

Then again, wasn't it a wise man who once said that the more he learned, the more he became aware of his own ignorance?

[_Chap]

Then again, wasn't it a wise man who once said that the more he learned, the more he became aware of his own ignorance?

That is exactly the point.

The first prophets of the CoJCoLDS believed that they knew a huge amount that no other people had known for most of the last two thousand years, 'plain and precious truths' that their deity had graciously restored to humanity. On that basis they founded a new church, and people joined it because they wanted to share in this wonderful and confident flood of enlightenment and truth.

Now much of what was once hailed as part of the Restored Gospel is seen as at best to be underplayed rather than proudly proclaimed. And for good reason. Two centuries of thought and criticism have made a lot of it look pretty frayed at the edges.

Can anyone believe that a man who spoke in public as Hinckley did about what were once core beliefs of his church could succeed in founding a new church from scratch? No way. Today's church leaders are living (literally and figuratively) on inherited capital.

[_SteelHead]

The nature of god.

Has gone from King Follet to Adam God to "I don't know that we teach that."

IT is all milk anymore. "No meat for you!" When was the last time a truly profound doctrinal topic was broached over the pulpit of GC?

[_lostsheep]

The Jewish origins of Native Americans

The duration of the earth's temporal existence

The nearness of the second coming

The origin of dark skinned people

Where and when we were born reflects our worthiness in the preexistence

Jesus was a polygamist and sired children, and his death cannot atone for certain serious sins like murder

[_lostsheep]

The words of our modern prophets are scripture

[_lostsheep]

Its not hard to see why the fundamentalist Mormons think that the mainstream LDS church has undergone its own version of a great apostasy

[_Sethbag]

Chap pretty much nailed it I think when he pointed out that nearly two centuries of time to hash out and contemplate what was once taught as "revealed truth" have really sorted out the truly supportable (religiously speaking) ideas from those that begin to wither under closer scrutiny.

Does any of this "prove" that the LDS church isn't really true? No, it's not proof. But these things do serve as evidence of the fact that the LDS church isn't really true. The plain and precious truths restored by Joseph Smith and his successors are slowly being abandoned, until we must almost wonder just what plain and precious truths our current leaders think were ever lost in the Great Apostasy in the first place.

[_sock puppet]

Then again, wasn't it a wise man who once said that the more he learned, the more he became aware of his own ignorance?

He was wise enough not to say god was telling him what to say earlier.