a five+ year crusade of character assassination

[_Darth J]

What am I deflecting from, O Wise One? And at what point did I defend Scratch?

Let's take a quick look at it all, DJ. SP complained that some folks actually think Scratch's attacks on DCP are largely personal and largely uncalled for. Simon said something about how DCP's responses too while getting personal with Scratch has DCP attacking a psuedonym of which no one, it appears, knows the in real life name of. You then respond in your deflective way to complain that the Church uses a pseudonym too, which is all pointless in the end because everyone knows what is referred to when mentioning the LDS Church or Mormon church or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

In other words, I gave a relevant response to show the speciousness of Simon Belmont's reasoning about what was stated in the OP.

That's a "deflection" in Stemelbow-speak.

In real life, to reasonable, functionally literate people who are not Stemelbow, a deflection would be completely missing the point of demonstrating how it is specious to claim that criticism of a pseudonym is not a criticism of what is represented by that pseudonym, and instead being so trapped in an elementary school level of reading comprehension that you really think my obvious point is a "deflective way to complain [about] the Church."

To be fair to Stemelbow, though, a deflection seems to imply forethought. Experience suggests that Stemelbow is not being deliberately obtuse in order to change the subject. He really is this obtuse.

Stemelbow, why don't you follow up by bitching about "personal attacks," after you have called this thread "an idiotic representation"?

Then maybe someone can explain (or attempt to!) the irony of you calling this thread an "idiotic representation" when you have completely missed the point.

[_Doctor Scratch]

My two cents regarding this whole Scratch/DCP feud...not that it really matters....is that although Scratch initiated it, DCP has "fanned the flames" through some of his actions. And, he has been advised by his friends to do exactly the opposite.

That said, Scratch has crossed what I would consider a moral line repeatedly with DCP. The digging up old Amazon wish lists and accrediting them to DCP, when they were, in fact, his son's, referring to DCP as an anti-semite, which does malign his reputation as both a professor of Islamic studies, and as a professor of BYU, in general, are clear examples of over the top behavior.

However, DCP is not the only person Scratch has harrassed in this way. The only way Tim Tribe could persuade Scratch to take his Linked In picture off of Scratch's website was to delete his own account from MDB, and vow never to post on MDB or MDD about apologetics again.

Liz,

None of these things are true. I'd appreciate it if you'd either substantiate your claims here with links, or if you'd withdraw them. You saying things like this would be like me saying that you shared IP information about Will Schryver and jskains with me.

[_Ceeboo]

Sometimes, after I take a few days off I'll pop back on here to catch myself up. Often its like I"m leaving my peaceful delightful life and entering some strange hostile world where everyone else is to blame. This thread is a wonderfully idiotic representation/summation of this joint. It probably should be pinned. Its adorable to see the defense of Scratch so much so that the posters will attempt to put blame on DCP or create off-the-wall deflections via DJ.

Hey Darth,

I would suggest taking the name of Aristotle off the above quote. (Quickly!) :)


Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Simon Belmont]

Liz,

None of these things are true. I'd appreciate it if you'd either substantiate your claims here with links, or if you'd withdraw them. You saying things like this would be like me saying that you shared IP information about Will Schryver and jskains with me.

In the spirit of goodwill, Scratch, I'll help you out with the CFR. It is true that you have never directly called DCP and anti-semite. The other things, though, well... I'll let readers decide.

The Adventures of a young DCP in Israel
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11374

Posting and mocking DCP's Son's Amazon Wishlist
viewtopic.php?p=473267#p473267

Implying anti-semitism (also, see DCP in Isreal)
viewtopic.php?p=431363#p431363

viewtopic.php?p=493676#p493676

[_stemelbow]

In other words, I gave a relevant response to show the speciousness of Simon Belmont's reasoning about what was stated in the OP.

That's a "deflection" in Stemelbow-speak.

Why can't you just talk to people instead of talking about me, in some bizarre way?

In real life, to reasonable, functionally literate people who are not Stemelbow, a deflection would be completely missing the point of demonstrating how it is specious to claim that criticism of a pseudonym is not a criticism of what is represented by that pseudonym, and instead being so trapped in an elementary school level of reading comprehension that you really think my obvious point is a "deflective way to complain [about] the Church."

To be fair to Stemelbow, though, a deflection seems to imply forethought. Experience suggests that Stemelbow is not being deliberately obtuse in order to change the subject. He really is this obtuse.

Stemelbow, why don't you follow up by bitching about "personal attacks," after you have called this thread "an idiotic representation"?

Then maybe someone can explain (or attempt to!) the irony of you calling this thread an "idiotic representation" when you have completely missed the point.

I haven't missed the point. I think it obvious that Simon recognizes that Scratch's real identity is unknown, but the church's identity is known. The comparison doesn't seem to make sense--it appears to be nothing but deflection to me.

[_Doctor Scratch]

Liz,

None of these things are true. I'd appreciate it if you'd either substantiate your claims here with links, or if you'd withdraw them. You saying things like this would be like me saying that you shared IP information about Will Schryver and jskains with me.

In the spirit of goodwill, Scratch, I'll help you out with the CFR. It is true that you have never directly called DCP and anti-semite.

Lol! Yeah, no kidding:

Hey, that's right! I had totally forgotten about your mockery of things that Jews hold sacred. Does that make you an "anti-Semite," though? I don't think so. It just shows you to be hypocritical, insensitive, and immature. Was it the tasteless joke of a silly young man? Yes; I'm sure it was. But what we all have to bear in mind is how sensitive most LDS are to mockery of sacred things.

And yet, Simon, you and Liz both said that I called him (or referred to him), rather directly, an "anti-Semite."

The other things, though, well... I'll let readers decide.

The Adventures of a young DCP in Israel
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11374

Posting and mocking DCP's Son's Amazon Wishlist
viewtopic.php?p=473267#p473267

How do you know it's his son's? This is the link to the actual account:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A2 ... st_profile

Here's a sample of one of the reviews:

Over at a particularly virulent anti-Mormon message board just now, some of the zealots are trying to gin up a campaign to flood this entry with negative reviews. I don't know whether they'll actually get their act together enough to do that, but they inspired me to drop in and post a comment.

I've lived and traveled in the Near East, and have traveled fairly extensively in Mesoamerica, and I have a Ph.D. in Near Eastern languages and cultures. My professional occupation is studying, translating, and commenting upon ancient and medieval texts, as well as editing such texts for publication.

That doesn't, of course, prove that my judgment is infallible. But,…

So this is actually his son? Maybe you and Liz can enlighten me here.

[_Simon Belmont]

So this is actually his son? Maybe you and Liz can enlighten me here.

Consider yourself enlightened.

Good grief, Scratch. Really. Seriously. Is there absolutely no limit to your bizarre obsession with me?

You're now searching for information about me on amazon.com?

Is there no end to the creepiness?

I didn't even know that the "wish list" existed, to which you provide a link, but one glance was enough to tell me whose it was. [url]It belongs to my youngest son, who was and is fascinated by film.[/url]

I've spoken with him about it, and he dimly remembers it. He generated it probably seven to ten years ago. Almost certainly before he could drive. Which is why he was using my name; he didn't have a credit card. (He never got Grand Theft Auto 3, by the way.)

He's married now. He and his brother and I are perfectly astonished -- and, frankly, weirded out -- that some anonymous internet stranger would be so fixated on me as to be combing amazon.com for information to use against me on a message board.

Looking for wish lists? Dragging my kids' old youthful video game preferences into your five-year-old crusade against me?

I used to joke from time to time, back when we were only a year or two into the public phase of your insanely intense fascination with me, about taking lemonade out to you on a hot day while you were rifling through the contents of my trash. But, joking aside, tracking "me" on amazon.com -- and wherever else you've been pursuing me on and off line -- isn't fundamentally different, is it?, from sorting through my garbage.

When I think of you, I'm glad I have a shredder.

You're beyond weird.

Very seriously: Get help.

And leave my children alone.

[_Doctor Scratch]

Simon:

Does the account--with the name "D. Peterson" on it--belong to Daniel C. Peterson, the Mopologist? Or does it belong to his son? You and Liz have both said that I went specifically looking for the son's account/wish list. Is that what happened? Or are you guys telling fibs?

[_sock puppet]

What am I deflecting from, O Wise One? And at what point did I defend Scratch?

Let's take a quick look at it all, DJ. SP complained that some folks actually think Scratch's attacks on DCP are largely personal and largely uncalled for. Simon said something about how DCP's responses too while getting personal with Scratch has DCP attacking a psuedonym of which no one, it appears, knows the in real life name of. You then respond in your deflective way to complain that the Church uses a pseudonym too, which is all pointless in the end because everyone knows what is referred to when mentioning the LDS Church or Mormon church or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I do not think Darth J deflecting the thread topic. He was illustrating that attacking a pseudonym is tantamount to attacking the individual (or organization) that uses that pseudonym. Simon's distinction is not a useful one, unless you just want DCP to be able to lob insults at Dr Scratch but not allow Dr Scratch to lob at DCP. That is Simon's apparent motive, and so it is a distinction for him. However, for those that do not see the need for a one-way only lob-fest, it is a faulty distinction, and Darth J's analogy is not only a good fit, it points up the fallacy in Simon's distinction.

[_Simon Belmont]

Simon:

Does the account--with the name "D. Peterson" on it--belong to Daniel C. Peterson, the Mopologist? Or does it belong to his son? You and Liz have both said that I went specifically looking for the son's account/wish list. Is that what happened? Or are you guys telling fibs?

You'd have to ask him. He said it was his son's, and we should believe him. By seeking out any and all information on DCP on the Internet, I am sure you came across this and decided it would be funny to post it.

A harmless joke, maybe, but it wasn't harmless to DCP.

When you said

None of these things are true.

Were you fibbing? Two of the three things are true.